Re: Hifers today
Posted by matt burns on March 04, 2012 at 00:36:01.
In reply to Re: Hifers today posted by John Davis on March 03, 2012
Hifers today
Lots of activity today, at 16:45 local time here in CT, I copied WV, SIW, NC, COM,MP, and GNK. All coming in well but wid lots of QSB. Re: Hifers today
later, Sal, K1RGO.........
Posted by John Davis on March 02, 2012 at 00:52:43.
In reply to Hifers today posted by Sal,K1RGO on March 01, 2012
Good work, Sal. I was out in my field about that same time, and encountered the same signals, plus USC and EH.
The QSB was definitely rough today! At times, USC and COM were about the weakest I've seen them, and sometimes not visible at all. It was good to see SIW back, strong enough to copy the CW ID by ear most of the time, and it was about the only one that didn't experience prolonged deep fading while I was monitoring. EH was at the edge of audibility a lot of the time, decent copy maybe a third of the time, and loud enough to be almost painful for a couple seconds at a time--quite dramatic level swings. For several minutes, GNK was only audible for the "K," and then it would fade back into the noise until that same point in the next cycle; but eventually I managed to hear the whole thing.
John
Re: PLC Freqs Hunting
Posted by Steve on March 02, 2012 at 14:26:38.
In reply to Re: PLC Freqs Hunting posted by John Davis on February 29, 2012
Thanks for the info...I do recall when it was quite a prominent signal before 'shut-down'. Do you know approximately
how much power the EU runs ? If it originates in EU, then it's the only signal I'm able to receive from there on LW here in NW IN.
Steve
Re: PLC Freqs Hunting
Posted by John Andrews on March 02, 2012 at 19:21:52.
In reply to Re: PLC Freqs Hunting posted by Steve on March 02, 2012
Steve,
The EU Lessay and Sylt sites are both listed as 250 kW peak power into their antennas.
John A.
Re: Hifers today
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on March 02, 2012 at 21:27:05.
In reply to Re: Hifers today posted by John Davis on March 02, 2012
Yes John, condx have been very good for QRPP flea power this year, its amazing. Last year was terrible here, also had noise ,local hash that is gone now and hopefully stays that way. Re: Hifers today
later.......Sal
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on March 02, 2012 at 21:35:49.
In reply to Re: Hifers today posted by John Davis on March 02, 2012
Hi John,
You didn't happen to save a capture of COM from yesterday did you? You and Sal are the first reports I've received since I adjusted my power down to 2.5mw on the good scope. No problem if you didn't, I'd just like to have a capture of the actual 2.5 mw signal.
Thanks,
Matt Burns Re: PLC Freqs Hunting
kc8com
Posted by Steve... on March 03, 2012 at 05:31:50.
In reply to Re: PLC Freqs Hunting posted by John Andrews on March 02, 2012
Wow.! no wonder that I'm able to receive them, at times.One would be inclined to think that with 250kw,the signals would be booming in. However it doesn't say much for my receiving equipment including antenna.
Noticed that some folks are even receiving LW broadcast stations from across the big pond. I have never picked up any stations from there. NDB's... can be a challenge at times.
DGPS & NAVTEX seem to be no problem to receive.
Steve
Re: Hifers today
Posted by John Davis on March 03, 2012 at 19:57:51.
In reply to Re: Hifers today posted by Matt Burns kc8com on March 02, 2012
>>> "You didn't happen to save a capture of COM from yesterday did you?"
Sure did...both the one you requested from Thursday, and the one from Friday afternoon, excerpted below Thursday's capture.
On Thursday afternoon, I was seeing your signal at 13,556,420.5 Hz low and 13,556,429.5 Hz high, ±1 Hz. (The bright trace at the far right is the carrier of WWVB at 10 MHz, showing the output of the receiver to be high by 1.95 ppm relative to the indicated frequency. Subtracting that error from the Argo displayed frequency gives the results above, with about a 1 Hz potential imprecision in interpolating the display.)
Fading was bad Thursday here, and even worse on Friday afternoon. On Friday, I saw MP and NC, but with more frequent and deeper fades than usual. Conversely, however, SIW was much better than normal most of the time, even though it too experienced some very rapid and deep fades. At one point, SIW reached S5 for a couple of seconds! Normally, all HiFERs here lurk right at the background level of S2.5 or thereabouts. USC was visible only about half the time, and the snap of COM at the bottom is the only time I saw it out of about 15 minutes of watching 13,556,410.
(On Friday I did manage to hear WV and GNK a few times each. No EH on Friday, but around 13562.8 MHz, there was some sort of signal apparently keying "E I E I E I," over and over. Now, since my own HiFER will finally be on this summer, and since it will be in the middle of my farm field, I had considered indentifying it as "EIEIO," but I refrained. And now I'm glad.)
Re: Hifers today
Posted by matt burns on March 04, 2012 at 00:36:01.
In reply to Re: Hifers today posted by John Davis on March 03, 2012
Thanks John Looks Like Its Working Sorry For The Short Reply Im Testing Out The Internet On My Phone Matt
Re: Help I.D. some Donuts
Posted by Lee on March 04, 2012 at 05:19:43.
In reply to Re: Help I.D. some Donuts posted by Pat Bunn on February 29, 2012
Let me say this again. Excellent tip Pat. I wrapped 20 turns of insulated wire on the unidentified GREY toroid form. The inductance reading I got was 2.178 milli henrys. That seemed a litte high. So I ran the online toroid calculators using color code info. Using the GREY info [type 3 iron powder] getting 2.178 milli henrys would take 200 or more turns. So I thought I should try ferrite info on the calculator to get closer to my actual 20 turn device. Turns out that 18 turns on a ferrite type T200 form made from ferrite material #75 will calculate to 2.178 milli henrys. Nice. My form is slightly larger than a T200 form, but the numbers are very close. So the tip for anyone thanks to Pat is. The color of your toroid core means nothing. Wind it and measure it. "6R" Beacon, El Dorado Hills, Ca Back on-the-air
Lee
Posted by Ed on March 05, 2012 at 02:20:59.
The "6R" beacon in CM98LS near Sacramento is back on-the-air. The frequency has changed to 180.580 kHz. This beacon is sending a slow CW ID followed by a 4 second dash. Operation is 24/7 unless I'm listening on VLF. 73s, Ed, KI6R.
HIFER roadtrip 2012
Posted by Ward K7PO on March 08, 2012 at 22:54:45.
On the road again. Hifer conditions not as good as they were last year at this time. Heard FRC this morning, from west TX, fading in and out. AJO was copyable for a time while near Kerrvillee, TX, but not strong. Nothing else heard. Stopping for a couple days in Rayne, LA for the hamfest.
Ward K7PO/m
Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 09, 2012 at 00:31:38.
Well I saw a GS13 Fed vehicle, a Fed gumbie with a clip board and a not so friendly neihbor pointing in the direction of my house and Lowfer antenna. He lives about 1/2 block away. My guess is my rf field is overloading his Cheap A.. AM radio and he hears hetrodyning and he has filed a complaint. I have a table top AM radio in my house and hear no hetrodyne. In my drive way I get tiny hetrodyning on my car radio but it disapears as soon as I hit the street. What can expect next?. Can I look up a complaint against my house address? Will I get an interference letter? I'm not concerned about my setup. It's uber legal. But I am concerned about the interference aspect of a complaint. The guys house is an isore. Over grown, falling down fence, rotting parked vehicle in driveway etc. I suspect the "Hill Side Planning Commision" will be knocking on his door soon. Hee Hee. Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Lee
Posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 09, 2012 at 19:34:29.
In reply to Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Lee on March 09, 2012
Hi...Wouldn't be overly concerned since you're not receiving any appreciable QRM in your own house. If the FCC knocks on your door , you can demonstrate this easily. On one occasion, a lady in an apartment bldg complained of EMI to bc radio reception but the FCC upon investigating and coordinating with my findings, concluded that the complainant needed to
install an outdoor antenna to improve the s/n ratio.
Don't think there's any guarantee of interference free reception of stations outside the primary service area.
Good luck & relax
Steve, KQ7E
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 10, 2012 at 04:35:03.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 09, 2012
Thanks for the chill pill advice. I have all my facts lined up. No worries. Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Lee
Posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 11, 2012 at 02:52:37.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Lee on March 10, 2012
Great !
What's your operating frequency ? I surmise , like other folks on here, you monitor either VLF, LF ,MF etc ?
If you monitor NDB's , I may have a few questions.
Steve
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 13, 2012 at 01:30:54.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 11, 2012
I'm on the LowFer list. JAM 187.015 khz. Mostly weekends. 24/7 if conditions pick up. I live in a very noisy urban area. At this point I don't have thye time or patients to
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 13, 2012 at 01:39:48.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 11, 2012
Ooops. Ham fisted typing sends another message by mistake. Why QRM paranoia?
I'm on the LowFer list. JAM 187.015 khz. Mostly weekends. 24/7 if conditions pick up. I live in a very noisy urban area. At this point I don't have the time or the patients to sort out all of my local noise issues. I am planning to build a shielded loop for VLF reception in the not to distant future. After I clear my plate of other automotive and house/honey-do type projects.
Lee
Posted by Charlie on March 13, 2012 at 02:55:59.
During my career, I maintained a number of NDB's and LOM's. Power ranged from 25 watts to 400, antennas from 50ft vertical wire with a single wire 100ft top hat, to a 250ft tower. We never had any trouble with what seems the primary concern of the FCC with experimenters on VLF, which seems to be interference with power company control signals riding on the AC lines. Power usually got to the site via an overhead entrance cable right next to the antenna in many cases. Is there any hope the FCC will come to some kind of rational thinking with power levels and antenna types so computer programs are not needed to communicate on VLF?
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 13, 2012 at 05:53:59.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 11, 2012
I forgot to mention that you can view my station on youtube. The only changes from the video is the trees seen behind the house are gone and the coil is now elevated to near the roof line.
Amateur Radio Beacon JAM 187khz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyEnXV7i1rk
Lee
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by John Davis on March 13, 2012 at 07:22:14.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Lee on March 13, 2012
As for frequency and times of Lee's operation, keep in mind that the regularly updated LowFER, MedFER and HiFER lists (among other resources) are available through links on our LWCA home page.
Re: Why QRM paranoia?
Posted by John Davis on March 13, 2012 at 07:36:43.
In reply to Why QRM paranoia? posted by Charlie on March 13, 2012
A couple of points first, in defense of the FCC. NDBs don't change frequency or mode of operation very often. Their operation is easily coordinated, and they are therefore deemed a much lesser risk to PLC operations by everyone involved.
Also, the fact is, the FCC technical staff were a lot less concerned about amateur operation jeopardizing national security or whatever than people think. They supported the proposal for the most part. Remember, the proposal made it to the late stages of the rulemaking proceeding before it got shot down! But money talks, even when it's babbling paranoid nonsense, and the commissioners had to listen or else face a lot of needless flack from the industry and Congress.
You are right--paranoia is the correct word. From a real-world standpoint, anyone with an engineering background would be hard pressed to find an authentic instance of harmful signal ingress into the power grid from any communication or navigation transmitter. It's NOT hard to find reports of interference in the other direction, however. Just one example...my attention has recently been called to a 2002 paper in the IEEE Transactions On Power Delivery, which I hope to report upon in more detail soon. In it, the authors had to acknowledge that measured signals from PLCs were strong enough to pose potential problems for the then-new Differential GPS system.
I certainly doubt that hams are ever likely to bring down America's near-third-world power grid. On the other hand, though, it's also not likely that computer software will ever be rendered obsolete on LF.
(1) Even if allowable ERP were in the hundreds of watts, the practical difficulty of radiating such signals is enormous. And,
(2) The unique propagation characteristics of LF favor relatively stable long DX opportunities, and those are best taken advantage of by software using slow data rates.
73 Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
John
Posted by Steve..KQ7E on March 15, 2012 at 17:08:23.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by John Davis on March 13, 2012
QSL..Thanks much for the info, Mr John...Steve
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Steve. KQ7E on March 15, 2012 at 17:15:26.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Lee on March 13, 2012
Ok thanks !
wrt local noise...I can sympathize with you...it sure can be upsetting and very annoying. Have a horrendous amount of EMI here at my location..it really taxes one's patience and definitely takes the joy out of VLF & LF monitoring especially with a random / long wire antenna.... too many
necessary house projects , etc here also.
Steve
Good News from FCC
Posted by Pat Bunn on March 15, 2012 at 18:02:58.
I just got an email from the FCC stating that they have granted me an experimental license from 495 - 510 Khz 800W/5W eirp. The call sign is
WG2XCT. It came earlier than expected - so now I need to get th etransmitter up and running.
Pat
Re: Good News from FCC
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on March 15, 2012 at 20:29:34.
In reply to Good News from FCC posted by Pat Bunn on March 15, 2012
Good news Pat. Don't forget to observe the S P at :15 and :45 past each hour. Maybe you can find one of the old Mackay 2006 transmitters--but keep it under your 800 limit(heh,heh). Ed EM50cg
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Darwin Long on March 15, 2012 at 22:07:14.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Steve. KQ7E on March 15, 2012
I likewise empathize about local noise on LF. I live in a "paradise" location for LF transmitting (the tip of the Mississippi Delta: excellent salt-water ground conductivity, flat terrain, etc). BUT... for RECEIVING, it's a whole different situation. We have very noisy power delivery here - miserably-arcing power lines messing up everything below 30MHz all around the Delta. Unfortunately, one of those lines are right down the street. LW is a mess; the AM band is noisy, and even SW past 30 MHz has a really high noise floor. Not just a buzz, but a high-pitched ZHZHZHzhzh... In order for me to DX, I have to drive miles away to a location south of Venice having no power lines and sit in my car, string out a Bev antenna, and clamp to ground.
To make matters even worse, none of my receivers are acceptably stable in order to decode most digital modes being used on LF in a somewhat noisy environment, so that further restricts my listening capacity, even if there were pristine listening conditions with no powerlines. I have to rely entirely upon battery-operated portables, so in a car where the temperature fluctuates, even a tiny bit, no dice on ever being able to reliably decode any digital modes other than very short-interval QRSS or DGPS decoding with DSCDecode, or just listening for CW or voice using a DSP notch.
BTW, Lee - I wouldn't lose sleep. The agent may not even be concerned with your setup. At the most, he probably walked away, giggled about having to come all that way for something that can barely be heard while listening to Fox Sports 570 in your driveway, and put on a show for your neighbor. Though I've never had any contact from the FCC in the 35+ years I've been experimenting with radio and as a ham, I've never learned et of an instance where a LowFER was cited for anything at all. It's the PLCs that aren't filtering out their harmonics and put energetic spurs right into the NDB and AM broadcast bands for tens of miles (interfering with a navigation aid for miles is far more serious than interfering with Fox Sports 570 for a few feet). If you did happen to cause someone to file an interference conplaint, the FCC has a policy of first notifying you that there is a problem and that you need to fix it (in other words, they're not going to barge in, haul your equipment off, and fine you).
-Darwin
Hifers
Posted by Garry Hess on March 15, 2012 at 22:32:29.
Shut down hifer SIW briefly to take a look for other signals. Found nice copy of 3: NC, top of square wave at 13555528 Hz; USC, QRSS3 at 13554011; and EH, CW on 13556998 Hz.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Pat Bunn on March 15, 2012 at 22:45:00.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Darwin Long on March 15, 2012
I'd not worry about it. I had a neighbor who constantly complained about my 1500 watt 6 meter station getting into his cable. He called the FCC and they came by and the first thing they told me was that he and the cable company were at fault and that I didn't even have to cooperate with the cable company if I didn't want to. They never did get it fixed and told him they were going to just cut off his cable. He wrote the newspaper and caused so much trouble he peed off anyone that could help him. The cable company said it was all caused by a cheap off brand VCR.
Pat
Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Posted by Lee on March 16, 2012 at 00:57:06.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Darwin Long on March 15, 2012
Thanks for the input. I've already put it out of my mind. Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Lee
Posted by Lee on March 16, 2012 at 00:58:42.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Pat Bunn on March 15, 2012
Very interesting. Thanks for the tip. Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car
Lee
Posted by Steve , KQ7E on March 17, 2012 at 01:02:30.
In reply to Re: Dhumass Neighbor and GS13 Fed Car posted by Darwin Long on March 15, 2012
Hi Darwin...Regret hearing about the horrendous power-line emi you're plagued with.I recommend that you file a written complaint with your local power utility stating that their distribution system is generating emi. Utilities are obligated to find, correct / mitigate the interference to the point where it becomes acceptable. The emi is interfering with a licensed radio installation. This falls under FCC Part 15 which deals with incidental radiation devices which makes the operators of such devices responsible to make corrections. Many utilities have personnel who should have knowledge in such matters. As hardware ( insulators, nuts, bolts, clevis pins, tie wires )ages, it corrodes. The corrosion acts as a barrier to contact continuity between hardware elements on poles and towers(loose hardware and sagging conductors can aggravate the condition); this allows sparking to take place across the very small gaps caused by the corrosion. Since the electric lines being connected to the hardware, the interference will propagate along the conductors for a great distance at times. The distance traveled is inversely proportional to the frequency. Their procedure , logically, should be to start at your QTH and correct whatever they find and then systematically move further and further outward. The whole process may take a considerable amount of time as it, usually, is not just one source...it ,most likely, from your description, consists of multiple noise sources. You need to remind them of their obligation under 'part 15'.
If they take fail to take action, after a considerable amount of time,approx 2-3 weeks , it would be advisable to call them again to inquire as to the progress...they should stay in contact with you periodically. If they fail to initiate any action at all, after about one month or so,
you have the option to inform them of your intent to take your complaint to the FCC for resolution. Hopefully, they'll cooperate so you don't have to involve the FCC.
Hopefully, this will be of some help to you in getting some relief with your emi situation....Steve
Re: Good News from FCC
Posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 17, 2012 at 14:25:49.
In reply to Re: Good News from FCC posted by EdWSlidell,LA on March 15, 2012
Congratulations !!
Have fun with it...did it take long for the FCC to process ?
Steve
lowfer SIW
Posted by Garry Hess on March 18, 2012 at 01:02:10.
Shut down lowfer SIW today until next Fall. The hifer on 13.5554 will continue running. Had some problems with SIW staying QRV the last couple of weeks. When I rolled up the cable tying a battery charger to the system the mystery may have been solved. Plenty of chew marks and a mangled section were found halfway along the 300' run. Shorting there probably tripped off the keyer IC.
Re: lowfer SIW
Posted by John Davis on March 18, 2012 at 04:24:45.
In reply to lowfer SIW posted by Garry Hess on March 18, 2012
Sorry to hear that SIW LF won't be around for a while. I noticed its absence Wednesday night and wondered why.
That night was not very good for propagation, apparently...at least, not before midnight, when I gave up and returned to town. I saw MP down at 137.7805, and two very faint instances of "NA" in DFCW. Up at 185.3, WMS was good, but from BR I could only hear the multi-tone step sequence once in a while, and there were just pieces of characters showing up from EAR.
(On Thursday night, the static was so bad here that not even WMS or MP could be seen through it. It was near summertime levels!)
John
Re: Good News from FCC
Posted by Pat Bunn on March 18, 2012 at 17:39:13.
In reply to Re: Good News from FCC posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 17, 2012
About 40 days.
I asked for 472Khz to 510Khz but didn't get it.
Pat
Re: lowfer SIW
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on March 20, 2012 at 00:31:11.
In reply to lowfer SIW posted by Garry Hess on March 18, 2012
It was probably woodchucks doing the chewing. I have my share of them doing damage in the garden,so I'm going to try electric fence this year........ LORAN again
later, Sal....
Posted by Larry Lanberg on March 20, 2012 at 12:21:58.
LORAN was going on 100 kHz last night (early 8/20/12 in UTC), this is the 2nd such instance this year. About 45 days ago the same thing happened. Yes, its definitely LORAN, I know that signal well. It came in really strong, so I suspect the Carolina Beach, NC, transmitter. MY QTH is Richmond, VA.
By the time you read this, and go to your receiver to check, I'm sure it'll be gone. Like last time. I wish someone else would hear it on one of those odd nights when its running.
Re: LORAN again
Posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on March 20, 2012 at 12:43:11.
In reply to LORAN again posted by Larry Lanberg on March 20, 2012
Larry,
Here's one possibility:
http://www.ursanav.com/ursanav-news/ursanav-testing-wide-area-timing-alternative
John, W1TAG
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 20, 2012 at 14:21:36.
In reply to LORAN again posted by Larry Lanberg on March 20, 2012
Hi Larry..
Thanks for posting the info...thought that I might have imagined things. I,also heard it but on 03-02 at 13:50 UT
at approx S-5+ and on 03-02-12, 13:40 UT . Been monitoring the freq., ever since, periodically but have not heard it
since.
Steve
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 20, 2012 at 14:46:09.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on March 20, 2012
Thanks for this info...seems like a possibility..will have
to keep an 'eye' on it to see where it goes.
Also, have been wondering if anyone has been receiving signals in the military portion of the LF spectrum?
Have been receiving what seem to be erratic beeping tones with various silent intervals between 39kHz and 111 kHz..
Signals seem to peak around ( unable to get a good zero-beat )65.4, 73.7 and 107.7 kHz consisting of single tone bursts, 2 tone and multi-tone warbling sim to RTT ???
Prior to 03-16-12 never heard anything except QRM and QRN
in that portion. Although, the reception dates seem to have coincided with high solar activity during that time .
Tnx....Steve
Any information would be greatly appreciated
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Larry Lanberg on March 20, 2012 at 21:04:39.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on March 20, 2012
Thanks for the info. Good work finding that. Of course I can't help but wonder if maybe they crank-up & use the system during special operations which they don't want published. Hey, we all like conspiracy theories.
I'm also glad that someone else on here heard it, this year.
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Lee on March 21, 2012 at 03:40:54.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on March 20, 2012
Thanks for that pointer. That was a really interesting read. Virginia Eh? Whats the weather like in Virginia?
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Larry Lanberg on March 21, 2012 at 11:25:13.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Lee on March 21, 2012
Warm & humid for this time of year. Last 2 weeks we reach about 80-81 F during the day. Other parts of the state might be cooler, I don't know. Richmond itself lies on a climactic boundary line, dividing "semi-subtropical" from something more temperate, I forgot what that one is called.
Btw LORAN was still running last night.
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Darwin Long on March 21, 2012 at 17:50:08.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Larry Lanberg on March 21, 2012
Weather here-stormy, tornadoes, lightning... BR is off a few hrs and tower grounded until the front passes.
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Darwin Long on March 22, 2012 at 05:13:10.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Larry Lanberg on March 20, 2012
While I didn't exactly cherish the clatter-clatter of Loran-C pulses while DXing, I thought it very foolish of the government to decide to shut it down a few years ago.
If we had a really bad solar storm or mirometeorite burst that took out a bunch of GPS satellites, or some nutcase group that decided it wanted to do a coordinated jamming session on the GPS frequencies, what navigation system backup do we have left besides our remaining NDBs, or a compass and map? Loran-C at least provided a decently accurate navigation system that worked well both in the air and far out at sea over a very wide area. The GPS satellites are not exactly going to last forever, and it's not economically realistic that we can just toss a new one up everytime one fails, or send a repairman up there to maintain them. A low-frequency ground-based navigation backup system would seem essential.
So maybe someone at the USCG wised up and decided to rethink canning Loran. Now if they would also rethink shutting down all those marine radiobeacons...
-Darwin
Re: LORAN again
Posted by John Davis on March 22, 2012 at 10:16:42.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Darwin Long on March 22, 2012
Not wanting to dredge up an old discussion yet again, but a couple of points probably should be addressed.
In point of fact, yes, we already do send up replacement GPS birds as needed. These were not some novelty put in place years ago as a one-time experiment. Our military devised the systen and depends on it more heavily than anyone else, and will continue to do so unless or until something better comes along. This is because of several factors, but most particularly:
1. The Global Positioning System is, well, global. LORAN never was and never could be, thanks to geopolitical impossibilities, not to mention the cost. By contrast, GPS works anywhere we need it, immediately, with no further ground installations required for nominal accuracy. For maximum accuracy, only relatively minimal additional facilities are required, which can be transported easily and set up rapidly where needed.
2. LORAN, even in its most enhanced forms, is not nearly accurate enough to accomplish the same ground missions our forces do with GPS. And...
3. Forget unmanned aerial superiority entirely without GPS. Vertical positioning capability is indispensible these days, and it is out of the question with LORAN.
The point I am making is, the GPS satellite fleet is not an idle luxury that can or will be neglected, as might happen if it were just some private-sector project where the quarterly bottom line is king. It WILL be protected, and it will be improved over time, because its primary user needs it so much. That's simply not something to worry about.
Can short-term disruptions occur? Certainly. Massive solar flares... cosmic debris... all low, albeit non-zero, possibilities. But let's be realistic. You'd have to lose a fair amount of the constellation before the accuracy degrades to that of LORAN. Who really needs a "backup" which, at its best, is no more accurate than a crippled version of your primary system?
Besides, if some interplanetary catastrophe takes out, say, a third of the GPS birds, I suspect we'll all have bigger concerns than whether a surveying job will have to be postponed, or our vacation flights will be on schedule, or whether we'll be able to watch HD movies over high speed Internet!
Intentional disruptions of human origin? Also possible. Being realistic a little further, though, in a band where propagation is fundamentally line-of-sight, there are lots of measures that can be taken to mitigate those risks--and we need to be taking them while we can. Right now, knocking out all network-based communication to our little town would not require some terrorist group lurking about for the intended duration of the outage with (direction-findable) jammers. One redneck with a rifle could take it all down from the window of his pickup and be gone for hours before a technician gets to the site; or, a juvenile delinquent with a rock and a strong arm could do it from the sidewalk, simply because the telco's GPS antenna is right there on the corner of the building in easy reach. The more critical the application, the less lackadaisical we should all be about the siting of our antennas, regardless of the band or technology.
We should not grow overly dependent on GPS where safety of life is concerned, IMO; but in connection with that same thought, we should remember there is no backup that is truly any safer, either.
John Re: LORAN again
Posted by Pat Bunn on March 22, 2012 at 13:33:10.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Darwin Long on March 22, 2012
Loran was shut down because it is obsolete and is not anywhere near as accurate as GPS. GPS has hot replacement birds in orbit as well as ones ready to launch.
I use GPS while navigating off the SC and GA coast out to 80 miles but still alway have a backup - (a compass and chart)
When Loran was shut down - nothing happened - regardless of the screams from old fisherman that it was better than GPS - it just wasn't and was quickly forgotton. Re: LORAN again
Posted by Krystallo on March 22, 2012 at 17:23:39.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 20, 2012
Hey All,
100 Kc indeed quite active-strong here at Boston .
K
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Steve on March 22, 2012 at 19:05:03.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Krystallo on March 22, 2012
Thanks for the info...
Heard it here in N.W Indiana last night at 05:30 & 08:00 UT
but don't know how long it was on the air since I didn't monitor it continuously; level approx S-5 with QRN.
This am at approx 14:00 UT, no signal evident.
At about what time did you hear it ?
Just out of curiosity, what kind of Rcvr and antenna do you use ?
Thnaks...Steve
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Krystallo on March 23, 2012 at 11:47:28.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Steve on March 22, 2012
Hey Steve,
It's been SUPER CRAZY around here lately, so I can't recall the exact time or day ( it was early this week Mon or Tue ? during dark hours ?).
But I definitely DID hear it when trying to take a quick listen for thunderstorm signatures. Quite frankly I was taken aback some ( I said to my self " I thought we were DONE with this " !).
+/- 100 Kc was an area that I had really looked forward to opening up when I first heard LORAN was going bye bye.I couldn't wait for it to sign off.
Antenna was 75 ft long wire and/or the new 40 M dipole I am testing (it's nice and quiet on LW!), rcvr was an Icom R-71a.
Sorry about the "fuzziness" of the report this long after the fact.
K Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012 at 06:14:58.
With the optimum LF season winding down, replaced by spring or even summer in parts of the country, many operators have been or soon will be shutting down their 1750 meter LowFER stations until fall.
SJ and SIW have already let us know about their operatiosn ending for the season. If you will be doing likewise, please notify us ASAP so I can keep the list updated, and thereby keep potential listeners happy because you haven't wasted their time.
On the other hand, HiFER operators are requested to let us know of their modes and schedules too (and otherwise let us know they're still around) so we can get the most people possible listening for them once again.
Thanks!
John
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on March 24, 2012 at 14:58:55.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
Hifer COM is operational intermittently due to sharing the primary hf antenna and the workbench power supply. Frequency and fsk pattern will remain the same plus or minus a dozen hz or so due to temperature variations and jostling of the boards.
Matt Burns Re: Call for Beacon Updates
kc8com
Posted by Mitch VE3OT on March 24, 2012 at 15:22:25.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
Good day John:
M P 137780.4 will be operating through the Summer - with short down-times as required for storms or maintenance. QRSS 30
Hifer MP 13555.4 kHz will be continuing to operate QRSS 3 ID "M P " throught the Summer.
73 to all
Mitch
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Paul on March 24, 2012 at 16:33:27.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
Hi John,
FRC is, and will remain on the air using 10 WPM CW mode on or about 13.565 MHz.
The current keyer alternates between groups of "FRC" and the whole callsign. A new keyer chip is programmed that will send "FRC" groups for 1 minute, then the whole callsign just once. Not sure when that will go "live".
FRC's QSL cards are being sent out year-round, so I have no idea what this HiFer "season" is all about.
(Beging soapbox) A beacon that is not on the air all the time is worthless. Some situations do not permit 24/7/365 operation, understandably. However, if listeners try for a beacon and never know if it is on or off, then why bother? (End soapbox).
FRC- 24/7/365 since 2006.
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012 at 17:22:44.
In reply to Re: Call for Beacon Updates posted by Paul on March 24, 2012
"... so I have no idea what this HiFer "season" is all about."
Good point. HiFERing used to be a diversion for LowFER operators once the spring and summer static became too strong to do much of anything down at LF. But the band works nicely all year.
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Pat Bunn on March 24, 2012 at 19:49:08.
In reply to Re: Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
USC will be operational QRSS3 at approximately 13.554Mhz 24 hours, EM94bw from upstate SC
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Lee on March 24, 2012 at 20:14:07.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
JAM 187.015khz will be shutting down at the end of March. So the last weekend it will be up is Sat 3/31 Sun 4/1. It will be available by request until next season. I plan to put it up again Labor Day weekend 2012. Thanks
Lee
Growing list of various items available.
Posted by Robert on March 24, 2012 at 21:01:31.
i'm cleaning out my storage. need the space more than cash so i am willing to make deals on many items. over 20 years of electronics junk collecting. http://denver.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=SE+Denver+Evans+%26+Quebec&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk= maybe someone here can use some of this stuff in a project for part 15 / amateur radio or for parts, etc. some can be mailed some needs local pickup in greater denver area. list will be growing as i clean out. got a 10x10x8 unit i'm trying to clean up. tired of dragging this stuff around with me.
thanks
beacon wv update
Posted by michael tyler on March 24, 2012 at 23:01:54.
Hifer Beacon "WV" is still on the air ....all reports requested....and appreciated.....mike
Re: beacon wv update
Posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012 at 23:51:40.
In reply to beacon wv update posted by michael tyler on March 24, 2012
Thanks Mike. How about the MedFER?
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Thom on March 25, 2012 at 03:24:28.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
HiFER MTI also remains 24/7 @ 5-WPM CW mode on 13.557.54 MHz. QSL cards are also sent throughout the year.
I'm the HiFER poster child having limited space for the beacon setup here. I'm the crying whisper in the radio ether, sunrise and sunset seems to be the best time to catch MTI and then the best way is visually with QRSS VD, ARGO or DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab.
Mahalo,
Thom - AB3MM
HiFER Beacon 'MTI' Re: Call for Beacon Updates--WV, EH, MTI, SZX, GNK, & FRC
Ellicott City, MD
GL:FM19og
Mode: 5-WPM CW
When: 24/7/365
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on March 25, 2012 at 14:21:11.
In reply to Re: Call for Beacon Updates posted by Thom on March 25, 2012
Hi Thom. Just to let you know that I heard the MTI beacon yesterday, while listening on the lower part of the HiFer band. You were just above the EH signal and about 339 on the peaks. When the propagation is right, the signal is always easy to copy, with it's slow M T I id. Also heard within the last couple of days were WV on 13556KHz, EH on 557, SZX on 563, GNK on 564, and FRC on 565. Only EH(569)and (449), were consistently asy to copy. with the rest 339 at best. There was still a lot of atmospheric noise from the storm front that past through earlier in the week. Ed WSlidell, LA
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on March 25, 2012 at 15:25:44.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
Hifer EH will continue 24-7 Re: beacon wv update
Medfer EH will be off after next week and on by request only until November.
later all, Sal.K1RGO
Posted by michael tyler on March 25, 2012 at 16:22:35.
In reply to Re: beacon wv update posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
oh, i forgot to mention , the medfer is off and will be for a very long time.....please remove it for the listing...thanks..mike
LW monitoring
Posted by mike tara on March 25, 2012 at 20:42:15.
can i sucussfully monitor ndb,s between 200 to 500 kcs on a ww2 Navy model ARB radio using the du-1 loop antenna
Re: LW monitoring
Posted by John Davis on March 25, 2012 at 22:03:09.
In reply to LW monitoring posted by mike tara on March 25, 2012
Assuming this is not a variation on the old "Doctor, after I have this operation, will I be able to play the violin?" joke, and the receiver and amplified loop are both fully operational, then yes, you should have a fair amount of success with NDB listening if you can locate the antenna in a reasonably interference-free spot. I have not worked with an ARB receiver personally, but I am familiar with its circuitry and have read what various collectors' Web sites have said about it over the years. It's a very competent design.
Having said that, it does have some obvious limitations compared to modern receivers. It will let you hear whatever is on a given channel well enough provided there is not a big pileup of stations, as can sometimes happen at night. With a newer radio containing sharp crystel filters in the I.F. stages, you can sometimes employ tricks like shifting the passband a smidgen to attenuate one set of modulation sidebands and let another come through more clearly. Digital displays on modern receivers will also let you determine the frequency of the station more accurately.
However, that's not indispensible. I've enjoyed listening to NDBs from hundreds of miles away on receivers less sophisticated than the ARB.
As for the DU-1 loop, I'm aware that it is an active (amplified) loop intended for direction finding applications and works down to around 200 kHz. But beyond that I have no knowledge of its specifications; in particular, how sensitive it may be. Perhaps someone else can offer advice on that part of your question.
John
Re: beacon wv update
Posted by Domenic on March 26, 2012 at 06:01:02.
In reply to Re: beacon wv update posted by michael tyler on March 25, 2012
GNK HiFER is running 24/7 with no down time so far. GNK MedFer is off for the season and may or may not start back up in the fall. Will post at that time. Re: LW monitoring
Thanks,
Domenic KC9GNK
Posted by Steve on March 26, 2012 at 06:08:33.
In reply to Re: LW monitoring posted by John Davis on March 25, 2012
Interesting info ...Tnx
John. I'm wondering if you know of anyone on LW who might be using an AN/FRR-21 Navy Rcvr ?
Thanks....Steve
Re: LW monitoring
Posted by Sal, K1RGO on March 26, 2012 at 14:43:50.
In reply to Re: LW monitoring posted by Steve on March 26, 2012
Steve Re: LW monitoring
I have an AN/FRR-21 receiver that I use for LF listening. I have been bandaiding it for years, but it still works. I like it. I don't know where or if you can get parts for it anymore.
later...Sal
Posted by Steve, KQ7E on March 26, 2012 at 15:08:30.
In reply to Re: LW monitoring posted by Sal, K1RGO on March 26, 2012
Hi Sal...Tnx for responding
Pls send me a test msg at ....need to talk with you about the FRR.
Tnx Steve
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Mark Dittmar on March 26, 2012 at 19:12:40.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
As usual Lowfer MBD in Westminster, CO will be on regular CW beacon mode upon request or as the mood strikes me. I'm off the air for next two weeks while I effect some antenna improvements, however.
Re: Call for Beacon Updates
Posted by Darwin Long on March 26, 2012 at 21:04:39.
In reply to Call for Beacon Updates posted by John Davis on March 24, 2012
I've always strived to run my LF beacon as if I were responsible for the operation and maintenance of an aeronautical NDB facility. Except for very short off-air periods during maintenance or severe thunderstorms, my beacon normally continues to operate 24-7, even while unattended if I'm out of town.
Beacon BR 185.585kHz is planned to continue operation 24 hours daily through the spring and summer months.
The format of BR will continue to feature QRSS-10 during the first 10 minutes of each hour (one full ident cycle), then continuous CW plus LSB voice identification of "BR" for the remainder 50 minutes of each hour.
The cycle is synchronized as closely as possible with WWV. Second-pulses (MM:55 to MM:00) with a top-of-minute announcement are also included for each minute.
I'll post any changes that may occur with BR's schedule or format.
-Darwin Long
Buras, LA
Re: LORAN again
Posted by Darwin Long on March 26, 2012 at 21:16:11.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by John Davis on March 22, 2012
I guess I'm sentimental about LF navigational technology and its immunity to interruption by objects and foliage... sure worked well while deep in wooded areas, in a canyon, or under heavy precip, and your GPS kept getting blocked. Even 1/4 mile resolution on Loran used to beat zero-lock on GPS while up against a cliff or mountainside. But back then, it also seemed like GPS was far more finnacky than today's advanced mapping-capable units.
Using DGPS, it's great to be able to get 10cm or less accuracy for marking very precise things like individual bird nests in a dense colony, and so forth.
-Darwin
LORAN still going
Posted by Larry Lanberg on March 28, 2012 at 23:42:55.
In reply to Re: LORAN again posted by Pat Bunn on March 22, 2012
I don't know what y'all can or can't pick up at your locations, but LORAN's been going non-stop since I posted that, what, a week or 2 ago. Please somebody else confirm they are getting it too. The signal here in Richmond remains quite strong. I am not crazy. It is C-LORAN.
New Lowfer Transmiter
Posted by John Hamer on March 29, 2012 at 00:42:48.
Hey Guys, I have been interested in low frequency transmitters for some time. I have enjoyed reading this message board and finally got around to designing my own transmitter. It is a very simple microcontrolled transmitter using the PWM output similar to a lot of designes I have found on the internet. I finally have the transmitter working but I have not designed an antenna yet. I currently have it connected to a small scanner antenna just for testing. I doubt the signal will go very far but I am close to 1 watt on the final. I am transmitting at 181818 Hz QRSS with 3 second dots. My call sign is JH. I am located in florence SC. I will have it on tonight for about an hour and probably most of this weekend. If anyone nearby is searching for signals check me out. I would love some reports. I will keep everyone updated on the antenna. Once the antenna is made I should be up 24/7.
Re: LORAN still going
Posted by John Davis on March 29, 2012 at 03:40:30.
In reply to LORAN still going posted by Larry Lanberg on March 28, 2012
Yes, it is LORAN-C, plus some experimental format as well at various times. I don't know if you noticed two of the replies in your earlier thread, but a couple of respondents copied the signal in Indiana and near Boston. On other forums, I've seen reports from many parts of the country.
From what a third party tells me, it appears Ursanav will mainly be working with the LORAN sites most of this year, then will turn their attention to DGPS and other navaid frequencies later.
John
Re: LORAN still going
Posted by SalK1RGO on March 29, 2012 at 15:52:40.
In reply to Re: LORAN still going posted by John Davis on March 29, 2012
I have been copying LORAN here myself, Ursanav is up to something, I gave them a quote for an LF active antenna special a few months ago in the LORAN frequency range. BC-1206
later...
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on March 31, 2012 at 22:24:17.
Does anybody here have any experience with the detrola bc-1206 or the same radio by other manufacturers? I won one on ebay last night and am looking forward to trying it out on lw and hf (with a converter).
Thanks,
Matt Burns
kc8com
potrzebie