Re: HiFER
Steve,
Creative! Hopefully, the propagation will improve enough for the copy to more obvious. The DFCW "Y" always reminds me of the Starship Enterprise....
Thanks.
John, W1TAG
Epson SG8002 - Simple Temperature Compensation...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 02, 2012 at 02:26:12.
See blog http://vk2xv-hifer.blogspot.com
73 Steve VK2XV
NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John R on May 02, 2012 at 06:01:08.
I bought a Nautel NX-250BD 53-05 (65 Watt) Non Direction Beacon transmitter.
Is any one here familiar with these? I would like to know how I change the frequency, and how to chance the CW callsign.
Ever better would be a manual.
My intent is to drop it down to 1 watt and use it in the 160 - 190 Khz band.
Thanks
Re: Epson SG8002 - Simple Temperature Compensation...
Posted by John Davis on May 02, 2012 at 06:27:28.
In reply to Epson SG8002 - Simple Temperature Compensation... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 02, 2012
Most ingenious, using an NTC thermistor in series with the chip and carefully selecting supply voltage to let the variation in Vcc compensate for ambient temperature swings.
Another method would be to use a PTC thermistor across the 5 V supply as a self-regulating heat source in an enclosure to stabilize the actual temperature of the module, as Lyle did with discrete crystals at one time. I suspect Steve's approach wastes much less power, although Lyle's might keep frequency more stable where colder weather is the primary concern.
Lots of room for experimenting, and another great tool to have in one's bag of tricks!
John
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John Davis on May 02, 2012 at 06:45:52.
In reply to NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John R on May 02, 2012
Sorry, can't help with a manual, but even if you had one you'd find it very hard to make one of these units compliant with Part 15 regulations. Remember, you are limited to 1 watt DC input to the final amplifier....not 1 watt out. Most NDBs are difficult to scale down to such low DC inputs with any efficiency.
Re: Epson SG8002 - Simple Temperature Compensation...
Posted by Paul on May 02, 2012 at 15:54:34.
In reply to Re: Epson SG8002 - Simple Temperature Compensation... posted by John Davis on May 02, 2012
Yes!!
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by Paul on May 02, 2012 at 16:11:13.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John Davis on May 02, 2012
I have a few Nautel AM transmitters in the field. Depending on the model, you might consider bypassing the PA and just running the exciter. You can monitor the input power to the "final" in the exciter and adjust supply voltage to meet the part 15 limit.
I think that's pretty cool! You'll have a "real" beacon!
Anyway, changing frequency on a Nautel exciter is easy, but changing frequency of their output amplifiers is not easy. In fact, most of the amps for the AM band are "factory tune only", even if you just want to change the frequency by 100 kHz.
My Nautel rep. is Ellis Terry, he lives in Las Vegas. His contact info is on the Nautel website. He's a super nice guy, and a techie type, so he may be able to assist you.
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John-R on May 02, 2012 at 18:59:38.
In reply to NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John R on May 02, 2012
I did receive some pages from the manual from Nautel that I put up on my web page in case others need refernce.
The first shows the back plane on page 6
http://www.kirara.co.uk/beacon/AR-M550N_20120502_122530.pdf
This one show how to select the power transformer taps and how to change the CW ID.
http://www.kirara.co.uk/beacon/AR-M550N_20120502_135112.pdf
I still am not seeing where to wire the 120 volt line into the unit.
On the second link, on Nautel's page 3-6 is says "Connect wire #38 from fuse A1F1 (line) and wire #33 from A1TB2 (neutral) to the transformer tap in the appropriate table."
Any suggestions would be great.
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 02, 2012 at 22:39:06.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 02, 2012
Hi John. In the first link(power supply, section 2.12.1) it mentions connecting the AC power into TB 2-2(hot)and TB 2-3(neutral). This would be for both the 115 and 230 VAC versions (which are apparently different/PDF pages 2 and 3). The rear cabinet pictorial is on page 5 of the PDF file, and it looks like the TB2 terminal block is on the lower right. If you manage to get it up and going, please let us know. Was this one a new item, or just surplus military gear? Ed WSlidell,LA
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John-R on May 03, 2012 at 01:57:25.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 02, 2012
New old stock. Never been put into service other than for certification. It has 45 hours on it.
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 03, 2012 at 02:59:59.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 03, 2012
Fine on that John. It certainly looks well built. I like the part about having assistance or mechanical means available before moving or installing it. From your posted data on it, looks like the info for ID setting is there, as well as the harmonic filter adjustment. I wonder if any band changing is required in the P.A. harmonic filter? Since it uses crystals, shouldn't be any immediate band limit below the 195 KHz beacon band edge. As Paul indicated should be a nice transmitter. Especially for the upcoming MF band allocation. Ed WSlidell,LA EM50cg
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John Davis on May 03, 2012 at 05:25:15.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 02, 2012
The pages you posted provide a bit of crucial information, but do you have others as well? ...particularly with schematics, if available, but even just some more of the detailed circuit description section would be useful too.
I don't want to pour cold water on your hopes. However, based only on the information available at this point, I've got to tell you honestly that it doesn't look too encouraging for ever making this transmitter compatible with Part 15 operation. Nautel makes fine equipment, but this transmitter was intended for something far different from the purposes anyone has expressed here thus far.
John
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John Davis on May 03, 2012 at 22:24:58.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 02, 2012
The pages you posted provide a bit of crucial information, but do you perhaps have other pages you could show us as well? ...particularly with schematics, if available, but even just some more of the detailed circuit description section would help in answering your questions with greater certainty.
I don't want to pour cold water on your hopes. However, based on the information available at this point, I've got to tell you honestly that it doesn't look too encouraging for ever making this transmitter compatible with Part 15 operation. Nautel builds fine equipment, but this transmitter was intended for a purpose far different from those anyone has expressed here thus far.
John
EH hifer even better
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 05, 2012 at 17:07:32.
I corrected the EH FSK to "normal", higher shift is ID, with an 8Hz frequency shift,same QRSS3.... this should be easier on the eyes......... Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
later.........
Posted by John-R on May 05, 2012 at 23:21:50.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John Davis on May 03, 2012
Today was a good day. Myself and two fellow amateur radio operators where able to power up the unit, and operate correctly. (Into a dummy load) What we also learned was that the instruction for changing the CW ID are worthless. While I now agree with John Davis that this unit most likely will not be able to be used on the 160 - 190 Khz band because of the FCC power output requirements, I am confident this will be able to be used with a few changes on the new ham band once that gets approved here in the United States. I am now working to bypass the built in CW generator (Because it is limited to three characters and use a basic time stamp module to send out my ham call. (Again to a dummy load).
I want to thank everyone for there help.
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by EdWSlidell,La on May 05, 2012 at 23:49:55.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 05, 2012
Hi John. Sounds like it might have been a worth-while acquisition. It might also be used for Part 5 LF purposes if you could get one of the experimental license authorizations(and get the CR-49/U crystals/fabricate a VFO). Is the coder/keyer PCB something that can be operated independent of the transmitter? Been looking for something like that. Let me know if it's something you'd be willing to part with. Ed WSlidell, LA EM50cg.
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John-R on May 06, 2012 at 00:18:44.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by EdWSlidell,La on May 05, 2012
> Is the coder/keyer PCB something that can be operated independent of the transmitter?
Unfortunately they are slide in cards. The biggest problem with them (They have two) is that the ID is limited to a 1 digit, 2 digit, or 3 digit ID's only. Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 06, 2012 at 01:44:09.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John-R on May 06, 2012
OK, thanks for the info John. Two cards for a maximum of three characters sounds not so good. You mentioned having some difficulty with the book stated procedure. At least the SAC SA beacons allow three(or four short)characters with a single pcb, and the programming is straightforward. Longer ID's like 'DOUG' or a call sign do require an extra coding pcb. Will have to look around for an older SAC NDB to scavenge one(or two). Ed WSlidell,LA
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John Davis on May 06, 2012 at 02:29:54.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 06, 2012
Among the documentation that you have, are there any actual schematics, block diagrams, or other pages beyond those that you posted online? Those could be very helpful in suggesting alternative keying methods.
Why that might make a difference is because these rigs are neither AM mode nor pure CW. One of the crystals provides the assigned carrier frequency, and the other provides the frequency for the keyed upper sideband. After keying is performed on the higher frequency carrier, that signal is combined with the steady carrier, and the composite signal is amplified more-or-less linearly in the driver and final. It would be very helpful to see more of the circuit to know whether and/or how well one could do without the main carrier. (For instance, does Nautel interlock the exciter so that the keyed "sideband" is not transmitted unless the main carrier is on? Or, conversely, do they actually make provision for true CW-only, as a relative few NDBs still are in some parts of the world?)
John
Re: EH hifer even better
Posted by John Davis on May 06, 2012 at 02:49:58.
In reply to EH hifer even better posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 05, 2012
"Even better" is accurate...especially after moonrise tonight. I was able to see the signal during daytime, but with a lot more fading. It got better after sunset, indicating that the band may now be better once the ionization dies down a bit and the MUF begins dropping. During the low sunspot numbers, I'd kind of gotten used to it being a daylight-only band.
Looks to me as if the slow sinusoidal cycling of the average frequency that I observed before on EH is no longer as prominent, too. (The slight overall steady tilt is temperature change at the receiver.) I was varying Argo sensitivity settings during this capture, which became necessary after that big batch of dogbones.
Only problem...now that you've turned the shift around to look normal for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, is Steve going to have to turn his computer over to see it correctly Down Under? :)
John
Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER!
Posted by John-R on May 06, 2012 at 04:18:29.
In reply to Re: NAUTEL NX-250BD 53-05 RADIO BEACON TRANSMITTER! posted by John Davis on May 06, 2012
I have no other documentation I had to beg Nautel to give me what I have already shown.
Re: EH hifer even better
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 06, 2012 at 04:33:17.
In reply to Re: EH hifer even better posted by John Davis on May 06, 2012
I like this format - there are a lot of 'visual clues' because the spaces are 'encoded'. This gives a lot of time spent on the baseline, which gives a nice reference, and gives a pointer to the call ID bits along the top line. I will copy this format for my own HiFER beacon.
Speaking of which, I am in the early stages of testing (see blog) and I am wondering is there a 24/7 22M grabber ?
There are lots of 30M grabbers - but I haven't come across a 22M grabber.
Anyone know if there is ?
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: EH hifer even better
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 06, 2012 at 15:35:42.
In reply to Re: EH hifer even better posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 06, 2012
Steve, I haven't seen any 22m grabbers myself. This format is better as you mention, shudda wudda cudda used it long ago.... it's never too late....... Re: EH hifer even better
later, dude.....
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 06, 2012 at 21:33:59.
In reply to Re: EH hifer even better posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 06, 2012
Laurence (KL7UK) has notified that he is running a 22M grabber here..
30M window first and then 22M window below.
I hope this stays on !!!
73 Steve VK2XV
Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012 at 00:32:11.
Initial testing of HiFER 'waterhole' ARGO grabber - location Sydney, Australia - QF56ik.
http://www.qsl.net/vk2xv/
Intended to be up for approx 23 hours (0030utc - 2300utc).
Two questions I have:
1. Why do other ARGO grabbers have "Grabber ONLINE" text along the top (my ARGO doesn't).
2. To upload to a webpage the capture file name must be fixed, but this means that you can't have a numbered archive locally that you can go back and search later.
Any comments ?
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012 at 02:38:19.
In reply to Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012
Doh !!! Found the "Grabber ONLINE" tickbox...
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Paul on May 08, 2012 at 04:47:32.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012
Nice work, Steve!
I don't see mine on there...
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 08, 2012 at 14:52:07.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Paul on May 08, 2012
Hello Steve and Paul. Paul, I believe that you eyes have be the correct distance from the computer screen, and sort of let your eyes relax, while still staying focused at that distance. You can see the VK2XV appear out of the noise, and with the each screen capture, appear in another location -- to avoid leaving a residual image in any one place on the screen. On another note, does anyone know if the AD9850 DDS Signal Generator Module being offered on Ebay, with its twin sine wave output, might be useable as a beacon on 22 m/13.56MHz? Either directly or by mixing with a TCXO/OCXO at 10 Mhz? EdWSlidell,LA EM50cg
Re: AD9850 DDS Signal Generator Module
Posted by John Davis on May 08, 2012 at 16:22:22.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 08, 2012
Hi Ed,
"The" AD9850 DDS Signal Generator Module on eBay? I see 158 listings for products of that description. :)
Of those, there are about three basic designs that comprise more than two-thirds of all the listings, ranging in price from around $8 to almost $20. Those appear to be cheaply made boards with the basic AD9850 chip and an inexpensive 125 MHz oscillator module. The two main drawbacks to these are (1) questionable frequency stability of the reference oscillator, and (2) the fact that you, the user, have to clock in the desired frequency with every powerup via either a 40-bit serial stream or several iterations of 8-bit parallel words. There's no on-board microprocessor to do this for you, nor display to indicate if you are on frequency. If you're comfortable with providing those features yourself via external circuitry, though, you might investigate a board of that sort and see if you could substitute a better reference oscillator.
At the other extreme, some eBay vendors offer several other circuit boards based on the AD9850 which are much more sophisticated, and of course, also more costly. Some of these are ham-oriented, although some are even optimized for specific bands. That might limit their uses unless you are able to re-program the on-board microprocessors that the designers of those modules included, and rebuild the output filter networks in some cases.
Speaking generically, the AD9850 itself is well suited as a transmitter frequency source if you give it a steady enough clock frequency--and keep stray digital and analog noise away from it. (I suspect the latter is also a weakness of the cheaper modules, since they don't appear to use multilayer boards with backplanes for both the power supply and ground, as recommended by Analog Devices.)
As DDS chips go, the AD9850 is relatively spur-free and has rather good phase noise properties, assuming the clock itself also does, and assuming you can keep stray noise signals away from the unit. But as with all DDS signal sources, it's not totally free of spurs, so I would not want to complicate things by mixing it with any other signal source to generate my carrier. It'd be best to simply let the chip output the desired frequency to begin with.
John
Re: K9AY on LW?
Posted by John Davis on May 08, 2012 at 19:17:39.
In reply to K9AY on LW? posted by Bill KB9IV on December 28, 2011
Imagine my surprise to notice that no-one ever answered this one, given that the K9AY loop has frequently been used on lower frequencies. If you haven't already done so, Bill, you might try the 'Msg Search Tool' button at the top of the message list (or via this link) and use it to do a search for K9AY. I know there have been several posts on it in the past, although I don't remember which particular ones might best address your question.
John
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012 at 21:13:00.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Paul on May 08, 2012
G'day Paul,
Excuse my ignorance, but I had to do a bit of digging to find out who 'Paul' is. Presumably you are K6FRC....
If so - your beacon will be 'off-screen' at 13.565 MHz. Also it is listed as having a fast CW ID. This will not be visible on a QRSS3 screen at this distance - unless the ID is between reasonably long bursts of carrier.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Paul on May 09, 2012 at 04:28:48.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012
Yes, of course. I saw that the grabber does not cover up to the frequency my HiFer is using. My attempt at subtle humor may have been overlooked.
Good work, Steve!
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012 at 05:30:25.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Paul on May 09, 2012
G'day Paul,
Seems a lot of things are going over my head today !!! First your (now obvious) jocular note, then the obvious ARGO "Grabber ONLINE" tickbox and finally, Laurence has made the penny drop about the equally obvious mistake I made about filenames for uploading with ARGO.
Just to round things out dismally - my ticket in the $70 million Lotto draw won not a cracker...
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012 at 05:32:33.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 08, 2012
and double-DOH !!! Laurence has made the penny drop about upload filenames....
Steve VK2XV
Re: NDB SC Stockton, CA
Posted by Steve Ratzlaff on May 09, 2012 at 16:04:27.
In reply to NDB SC Stockton, CA posted by Paul on April 15, 2012
271 SC was decommissioned and turned off around November 2011.
HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012 at 19:27:06.
Finally got the grabber sorted - I think.
Looking back through the archive I see traces of Dex's "NC" from 0815utc to 1130utc with the best around 1000utc.
Garry's "SIW" popped up momentarily (just an "I" and a trace) at 0925utc. Later there were traces from 1130utc to 1200utc.
Neither sets of traces were as strong as before. Hopefully things will lift around the 13th.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
Posted by Sal, K1RGO on May 09, 2012 at 21:02:17.
In reply to HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012
Cool grabber Steve, Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
I managed to "pull" down the EH hifer xtal to 13.555.460 with reasonable stability, so have a look. also is this the universal hifer watering hole?
later.....Sal
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 09, 2012 at 21:26:53.
In reply to Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber posted by Sal, K1RGO on May 09, 2012
Sal, I copy EH on the new frequency fine but it's only 1 Hz above my beacon so I moved SIW down 10 Hz. That still puts it 15 Hz or so above RY.
73, Garry
Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012 at 21:27:47.
In reply to Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber posted by Sal, K1RGO on May 09, 2012
G'day Sal - good stuff - I will keep an eye out for "EH".
As to being the "universal" HiFER watering hole - I rely on looking at the QRGs listed on LWCA and noting there is a bunching of 4 QRSS3 beacons between 13555.3kHz and 13555.5kHz (although "NC" is a bit of a wanderer). Moving "EH" to 13555.46kHz makes 5 in total within a little over 100Hz spread. That is, in order of increasing frequency, "MP", "RY", "SIW", "EH" and "NC".
Given that the US is the centre of the HiFER universe (AFAIK) in terms of number of beacons, one could argue that this roughly 100Hz grouping makes for a "universal" waterhole.
There are other minor groupings between 13556kHz and 13559kHz, but the spread of those groupings means they cannot be viewed simultaneously on an ARGO screen set to QRSS3. Outside that the spacings are generally 1kHz.
So, in my opinion, the band from about 13555.35kHz to 13555.54kHz is a watering hole. Others may have a different opinion and hopefully will comment.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012 at 21:31:12.
In reply to Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 09, 2012
I see "EH" on the VK2XV grabber now (2125utc). No complete decode, but the signature is recognisable.
It is right on top of "SIW"'s QRG though...
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 09, 2012 at 23:04:33.
In reply to Re: HiFERs in Eastern Australia Grabber posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012
Cool, I've been checking out the grabber and saw EH coming through.If there is a drift issue ,I may have to get my oven ready. Its a simple scheme where I used it wid an L-111 converter to hold +/- .1 Hz. Thanx to Gary for moving. I may be a bit off where as both my freq counters and standard may vary +/- 10Hz at best. Re: Testing HiFER Grabber...
later......Sal
Posted by Paul on May 10, 2012 at 01:23:12.
In reply to Re: Testing HiFER Grabber... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 09, 2012
Wow, with your luck lately, I suggest wrapping yourself in bubble wrap and pillows whenever you leave the house, OM.
Re: NDB SC Stockton, CA
Posted by Paul on May 10, 2012 at 01:24:01.
In reply to Re: NDB SC Stockton, CA posted by Steve Ratzlaff on May 09, 2012
Thanks for the info. I'll have to take a run out there and see if it is still there or if they "nuked" it.
1750m carrier current
Posted by Robert on May 10, 2012 at 14:03:37.
i came up with this idea and posted it over on p15us. what do you guys think of 1750m neutral loaded carrier current? either by itself or feeding part 15.219 translator nodes. would it work? i know 1750m is used in carrier current intercoms at very, very low power.
anyone know how well 1750m does with carrier current? seems using neutral loading would make an excellent distribution platform for part 15 am nodes. you could use AM mode and make 1750m to medium wave translators and not need a NRSC limiter at each node as the 1750m would be am and pass the asymmetry along to the am medium wave tx's
HiFER "EH" seen in VK on new QRG...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 10, 2012 at 20:31:17.
Nice visual decode of "EH" at the early time of 0640utc on the new QRG at the 'waterhole'. See blog for a grabber picture.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: 1750m carrier current
Posted by robert on May 11, 2012 at 16:27:26.
In reply to 1750m carrier current posted by Robert on May 10, 2012
i would have thought this topic would garner lots of interest and comments.
i thought carrier current longwave would be a pretty good idea.
as far as i can tell under part 15 carrier current longwave is legal all be it less radiated power than carrier current medium wave.
Re: 1750m carrier current
Posted by John Davis on May 11, 2012 at 20:36:04.
In reply to Re: 1750m carrier current posted by robert on May 11, 2012
Most likely there has been no comment up to now because most users of this message board are primarily interested in radiated signals at 1750 meters. And although I've had experience with carrier current, I've been tied up for a couple of days with a building installation on my farm.
While it is true that LF carrier current intercoms, baby monitors, etc., have had a modest success over the years, there are a number of differences between them and what you are proposing that could very well kill the idea.
For one thing, the carrier current intercoms use the hot and neutral conductors as their transmission line. This makes it relatively easy to comply with both conducted and radiated limits. On the other hand, it means that the first pole transformer encountered by the signal is effectively the end of the line.
By "neutral loading," I presume you mean working the neutral lead against ground. This can conduct signal over longer distances, but it is very hard to ascertain compliance. Results from power pole to power pole are very hard to predict. Signal may be fine one place, but either way over the radiated limited or almost entirely absent, just down the block. I had to abandon my neutral lead experiments for that reason. I could never control the outcome well enough to assure legal operation.
The second (and easily most fatal) difference from LF carrier current intercoms is that they use frequency modulation to overcome the otherwise horrendous amounts of buzz and impulse noise present in the LF band on every power line in the world! If you were to use AM and simply try to translate the received signal from LF to BCB, it would relay more noise than anything else. You would not be able to eliminate a limiter at each node, by any means. It might have to take the form of AGC and noise blanking, but you will need limiting of some sort, and the signal will still deteriorate badly over distance.
Also bear in mind that if you simply translate the AM LF carrier to a BCB frequency to be able to radiate it, the amplifier stages will have to be linear--meaning, only a fraction as efficient as an amplitude-modulated Class C, D, or E final.
And don't forget the other Part 15 regulations that also apply, such as the limit of 5 transmitters before type acceptance is required... and the section that limits an entire system to the radiated signal permitted for a stand-alone device operating under the same section of the Rules, where "system" is defined as a collection of devices or modules interconnected by wire.
John
HiFERs in VK2...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 11, 2012 at 21:03:21.
Conditions are lifting a bit (SF=130), but Ap is high-ish (12).
"EH" was visible from 0600utc to 0900utc with very good visual decodes at 0645utc and 0715utc. It reappeared at a lesser strength from 1030utc to 1300utc with best visual decode at 1100utc.
"RY" made a brief and faint appearance at 1125utc. Still haven't captured a good decode yet.
Waiting for a high SF and low Ap...
73 Steve VK2XV Re: 1750m carrier current
http://vk2xv-hifer.blogspot.com
Posted by robert on May 12, 2012 at 13:47:14.
In reply to Re: 1750m carrier current posted by John Davis on May 11, 2012
i had actually cooked up this single site design. it's a ground level setup and the radiator is shortened to allow for top hat and uses very low loss roller inductors and veriable capacitor such as those out of a hi power am tx.
link
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff336/kc8gpd/superhighefficiencypart15amtxsite.jpg
other technics are also used to lower ground resistance and the tx would be of the class e configuration.
Re: 1750m carrier current
Posted by robert on May 12, 2012 at 13:53:43.
In reply to Re: 1750m carrier current posted by robert on May 12, 2012
i really respect and trust your opinions on the forum here so when i come up with these out of the box idea's i like to run them by you guys.
i live less than 20 miles from a field office here in denver colorado.
i have also finally acquired a nems clarke 120e fim to check out my am bcb carrier current stuff for legal f/s.
i have yet to check it against a potomac and chart how far off it is though.
HiFers Heard 12-14 May, 2012
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 14, 2012 at 13:36:59.
Hi everyone. Conditions fairly good, with the CW ID's from MT and SIW heard about 339. CW beacons WV, MTI, GNK, and K6FRC heard about every day running around 3/4-3/4-9. K6FRC heard after 0200UT, but seems strongest in the morning at about 4-4/5-9, before fading out after 1300UT. Ed WSlidell,LA EM50cg
HIFERS this morning
Posted by Ward K7PO on May 14, 2012 at 14:17:52.
Hearing AJO and FRC this morning, 0900 local, just south of Dallas. AJO is 549, and FRC is 439 with lots of qrn. Not hearing anything to the east yet. We'll probably stop in Memphis tonight, them on to Dayton.
NDBFinder
Ward K7PO/m
Posted by The Other Lee on May 14, 2012 at 19:22:56.
Every now and then I notice Bev's NDBFinder program on the 'net. It looks interesting, I was wondering if anyone here had ever actually used it and, if so, what results were to be had?
The Other Lee
Re: NDBFinder
Posted by Darwin Long on May 14, 2012 at 22:11:31.
In reply to NDBFinder posted by The Other Lee on May 14, 2012
It's a good piece of software - analyzes periodicity of repeating IDs statistically, and lets you overlay hundreds of frames of a suspected repeating cycle additively to detect IDs of a notched frequency band, rather than just plotting the audio spectrum (as in QRSS) in a slow plot over a long period). So you could just plug a receiver in overnight and let it run, then check a bunch of cycles from the periodicity histogram for each frequency band and see if there are idents in them.
However, it is VERY weak on listing the correct idents themselves (I get mainly E's,T's, and I's), particularly if the signal is a DAID format NDB. Not a problem for those of us knowing Morse, but would be essential if you wanted to wake up in the morning with a bunch of suspect idents listed for you, or if the ident was still buried in low contrast against noise.
-Darwin
New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by Sal, K1RGO on May 15, 2012 at 16:56:30.
Something new for a change, I think its QRSS10 SIW with a sawtooth hovering over. Also NC coming thru all at ~ 12:45 local. Re: New SIW QRSS10?
later..........Sal
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 15, 2012 at 17:21:43.
In reply to New SIW QRSS10? posted by Sal, K1RGO on May 15, 2012
Sal, that's correct. I'm trying some different waveforms out to see how they do on the VK2XV grabber. Last night the original signal was changed from QRSS3 to QRSS10 and the secondary sawtooth was running about 5 seconds up and over 30 seconds down. May change from sawtooth to FSK in a bit. Re: New SIW QRSS10?
73, Garry
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 15, 2012 at 18:53:48.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 15, 2012
COOL, that should give you a few more dB..........
New HiFER or just scruff ?
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 15, 2012 at 19:45:32.
On the last run of captures I think I see an unid HiFER at around 13555465Hz. It appears to have an "S" in the QRSS3 ID. The ID repeats about every 75 seconds.
I don't believe it is "SIW" as Garry's signal is some 30Hz below that.
I wonder if it is a HiFER or just random scruff - any clues ?
73 Steve VK2XV
HiFER's in North GA
Posted by Bob C on May 16, 2012 at 17:36:53.
EH Very strong almost every evening. RY and MP most nights into EM83du. Bob...WA1EDJ
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by John Davis on May 16, 2012 at 19:53:18.
In reply to HiFER's in North GA posted by Bob C on May 16, 2012
Hi Bob. Thanks for the reports from ga, and good to hear from you again. Reckon you might put up a HiFER of your own one of these days?
John
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 16, 2012 at 21:28:41.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 15, 2012
Waveform tests with VK2XV continue. For tonight, the sawtooth deviation has been dropped from 10 Hz to 5 Hz. The period is still on the order of 100 seconds, dominated by the downward ramp. This source is a bit over 10 Hz above the QRSS SIW frequency of ~13555430 Hz, which remains at QRSS10 rate (except for the CW ID at the start of each cycle).
Last night's VK2XV grabber displays showed FSK stations NC (sq-wave deviation), EH (dots high), and RY (DFCW) doing better than QRSS SIW. Going to QRSS10 rate doesn't appear to help. However, the downward sawtooth ramp shows up well, hinting that forms of FSK are better for DX than QRSS. Perhaps this has long since been established by previous hifer operation.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: 1750m carrier current
Posted by robert on May 17, 2012 at 16:07:27.
In reply to Re: 1750m carrier current posted by robert on May 12, 2012
i can now add a Spec Analyzer to my gear lineup and will soon be working on getting an l/c meter.
then i can fabricate my own equipment for experimentation
HiFER "RY" seen in VK...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 17, 2012 at 19:47:04.
G'day All,
Finally the conditions were good enough to get a positive ID of "RY" which brings the total number of HiFERs identified here in VK2 to four (i.e., "NC", "EH", "SIW" and "RY").
This latest HiFER beacon capture comes with the added bonus that "RY" is the best DX so far at 16,325km.
See blog for capture.
73 Steve VK2XV Re: New SIW QRSS10?
http://vk2xv-hifer.blogspot.com
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 17, 2012 at 22:30:39.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 16, 2012
The SIW QRSS signal on 13555430 Hz is now back to the original rate of QRSS3 and with a faster Morse CW ID. For the moment the sawtooth, up a bit over 10 Hz, will stay at 5 Hz deviation with short ramp up and long (>100 sec) ramp down.
73, Garry
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 17, 2012 at 23:51:33.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 17, 2012
Cool, I'll have to check it out Re: New SIW QRSS10?
later.......Sal
Posted by John Davis on May 18, 2012 at 06:02:26.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 16, 2012
"Going to QRSS10 rate doesn't appear to help. However, the downward sawtooth ramp shows up well, hinting that forms of FSK are better for DX than QRSS. Perhaps this has long since been established by previous hifer operation."
Not to the best of my recollection. In fact, if δf/δt is too great, FFT detection suffers considerably.
The ramp is certainly distinctive to the eye, but conveys no information beyond being a brand--in the cattle sense, I mean--an identifier that can be spotted more readily on the flank of a moving head of beef (or an Argo display) than an owner's name (or call sign) would be if spelled out in the same location. But like a cattle brand, it must be both (a) simple enough for quick recognition, and (b) sufficiently unlike any other so there can be no ambiguity or confusion.
I do agree that 10 second dots offered no advantage over 3 second dots, because fades happen more often over the course of an ID cycle that way. When QSB was at its most rapid, it broke up the ramp waveform too. As long as I knew what to expect, I could discern both of the real signals (QRSS and ramp) from the wandering QRM easily enough. But a real-life message, consisting of text not previously known, might not have fared so well.
On the other hand, comparing SIW on Tuesday night with EH, I'd also have to say that 3 seconds itself is a little too short when the message consists entirely of dots. I like to run all QRSS rates in slow mode these days, for sake of better detection efficiency and reduced noise in the display, but the shortness a strict 3-second dot in slow modes makes it harder to discern between signal and noise when the signal gets really weak.
An even better illustration of the shortcoming of overly short intervals is COM. It has the non-50% duty cycle rectangular waveform. I haven't seen it well at all for some weeks anyway, but the last time I did capture it at all, only the longer duration marks showed up as themselves. The shorter spaces were present only as a hazy, vaguely lighter trace of noise that had no evident correlation with the marks. Now, EH's dots are long enough to be distinguished from the baseline better than COM's waveform, but the nearer it gets to the noise floor some days, the more I wish the dots were maybe 5 seconds long.
Been busy this week working on the next LOWDOWN, so time has been very limited to collect and post my captures. Early Tuesday evening was the best 22m receptionin quite some time, though. MP, RY, both SIW signals, EH and NC were visible simultaneously most of the time. USC did well when I tuned down there, and I had good copy by ear of WV, AJO and FRC some of the time.
John
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 18, 2012 at 11:50:32.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by John Davis on May 18, 2012
Thanks for the comments John. I agree QRSS10 symbols don't usually seem to offer an advantage at HF and QRSS3 is slower than optimal. Based on how well EH, NC, and RY do, something on the order of QRSS6 might be better. That speed is one of the K1EL keyer IC choices.
As to sawtooth waveforms, Steve's blog discusses two reasons why sloping signals might do better than constant frequency signals. I wondered why WB3ANQ did so well on 30 meter sawtooth QRPP with VK6DI (http://www.wb3anq.com/), now I know. And it wouldn't be that hard to convey real information, not just detection: let upward ramps represent dashes and downward ramps represent dots (or vice versa), rather like DFCW.
On the matter of duty cycle, yes, moving too far away from 50/50 can make the shorter transmissions hard to copy. But the longer transmissions might well come through even better. Unless the intent is to send information that could help rather than hurt and provide another means than frequency to identify the source.
73, Garry
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by John Davis on May 18, 2012 at 18:27:23.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 18, 2012
On the matter of duty cycle, yes, moving too far away from 50/50 can make the shorter transmissions hard to copy. But the longer transmissions might well come through even better. Unless the intent is to send information, that could help rather than hurt and provide another means than frequency to identify the source.
Agreed. I think the trick is to simply not make the shorter element quite so short, even if it requires dragging out the longer element a little further to maintain the original duty cycle.
More thoughts on your other excellent points in a moment...
John
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 18, 2012 at 18:32:31.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 18, 2012
G'day Garry/John D
The argument against simple repetitive patterns as being mere "cattle brands" is a strong one widely held. Certainly in the crowded 30M band where you have commonly up to nearly 20 stations bunched together (as shown by a recent QRSS Knights post) this kind of simple ID quickly runs out of uniqueness.
Also there is, understandably, some disquiet amongst some (me included) about deviating from the 'bonafide' way of ID-ing in a licenced Amateur band as in some jurisdictions it is a legal requirement. In the non-licenced 22M band this requirement falls away, I believe, almost universally. All HiFER I have seen use a non-standard 1 to 3 letter ID already.
In the 22M band, because the beacon numbers are relatively low, extending John's notion of a "cattle brand" similar to the real cattle brands where the brand is advertised at the gateway of the ranch (e.g. "The Bar-T Ranch") it would be simple for such "HiFER Ranchers" to post a screen grab of their 'HiFER Brand' in sufficient detail (QRG, swing, period, slope values, duty cycle..) to provide a positive ID.
Alternatively, the suggestion by Garry of the sloping lines of different senses for dots and dashes appeals to me now after the tests he has done via the VK2 grabber. I must say I have been 'converted' to sloping lines. This method neatly marries the sloping line characteristic whilst using a 'bonafide' CW ID.
In fact, I am sure I have seen, either recently or on someone's archives, just such a sloping line encoded CW IDed beacon - probably on 30M.
Not fussed - just thinking...
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Posted by John Davis on May 18, 2012 at 19:43:54.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by John Davis on May 18, 2012
(Well, that turned out to be a long moment. Finally stopped for lunch. :) )
Based on how well EH, NC, and RY do, something on the order of QRSS6 might be better. That speed is one of the K1EL keyer IC choices.
For which I am very glad. That'll probably be my mode of choice this summer, assuming I ever get time to complete the transmitter. (Lots of activity on the farm the past couple of months...just not electronic activity yet.)
As to sawtooth waveforms, Steve's blog discusses two reasons why sloping signals might do better than constant frequency signals. I wondered why WB3ANQ did so well on 30 meter sawtooth QRPP with VK6DI (http://www.wb3anq.com/), now I know.
Of course, running 200 mW (a tad over 40 times more power than we're allowed at 22 m) probably doesn't hurt, either. :)
But I do find Steve's analysis compelling in many ways. One thing that stands out to me is that a sloping trace stands out to the eye-brain system through fading, even that which is deep enough to break the line into shorter segments. The trace can be followed by eye over longer durations that way than a constant-frequency on/off keying method can, since the latter gets randomized once the QSB is deep enough and occuring at a period similar to the keying rate.
Looking at Steve's capture of RY that also includes your signals, it's clear that slower versions of your QRSS ID would not be any more readable. But that doesn't really impact the sloped line, even though not all of it is continuously visible either. The frequency trend, rather than the presence or absence of carrier in a given time slot, is enough to convey information in the most fundamental sense of the word. Although there is also a flip side to that coin, which I'll mention in a moment.
And it wouldn't be that hard to convey real information, not just detection: let upward ramps represent dashes and downward ramps represent dots (or vice versa), rather like DFCW.
I'm very excited by that thought. It ought to work quite well, with one caveat.
Notice the main difference between the sawtooth and your OOK in the capture I mentioned. The sawtooth period is much longer than the dot length...and if it were reduced to the same order of time as the dot length, it is possible that fading could obscure entire up-slope or down-slope coded elements, just as it sometimes does the OOK elements. Since it is the frequency trend that is important, the ramp will probably need to be significantly longer duration than QRSS modes generally used on this band, and that means slower data throughput.
But that's OK! The advantages of significantly slower modes have long been denied to us by propagation on this band, and I imagine this might be a good way of overcoming that limitation.
Up-slope for dash and down-slope for dot sounds fine to me. That method gives the same time compression advantage as DFCW--and, without any need to leave a gap between consecutive dots or consecutive dashes, for that matter. Element lengths of 30, 60 or 90 seconds might be worth an initial try. I'd bet it's not necessary to use a full element spacing between letters. Probably half a length without carrier would be sufficient, as the start of the next ramp (at the beginning of the next letter) ought to be pretty distinctive when it occurs on the "back beat" that way. If that proves true, then one full element length without carrier would probably serve well for word spacing, rendering a slight additional time improvement over traditional DFCW coding.
It should be easily readable on Argo. Slow ramps would be hard to implement in a hardware IDer, though. Wonder who might be willing and able to code some transmit software?
John
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by Bob C on May 18, 2012 at 20:25:43.
In reply to Re: HiFER's in North GA posted by John Davis on May 16, 2012
Good to hear from you John!....I've been toying with the idea of a HiFER beacon. Not sure if I want to go the full blown route with a DDS or an Si570, or just get a couple of the Re: New SIW QRSS10?
Epson Osc. modules programmed for the watering hole and pick the best? I'm seeing beacons every night down here. The North-South path seem solid lately....I'll announce if/when I get one going....Bob...EDJ....
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 18, 2012 at 20:59:13.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 18, 2012
Just found a reference to "QRSS Slash Code"....
http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/propeller-on-30m-qrss-contd.html
Thought I had seen it somewhere...
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by pat bunn on May 18, 2012 at 21:11:39.
In reply to HiFER's in North GA posted by Bob C on May 16, 2012
Bob
Didn't know you were in to HIFERS. Have been running USC for 6 mos or so. Nice to see you still doing radio.
Pat Bunn Re: New SIW QRSS10?
N4LTA
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 20, 2012 at 15:29:26.
In reply to Re: New SIW QRSS10? posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 18, 2012
Based on VK2XV grabber results I've changed the hifer SIW
QRSS rate to 6. That should give the best possible display when receiving with ARGO QRSS3, slow. The sawtooth auxiliary signal remains the same (5 second rise, 100+ second fall). Maybe I'll eventually figure out a hardware scheme to send a "slash" code message instead.
73, Garry
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by Bob C on May 21, 2012 at 19:57:20.
In reply to Re: HiFER's in North GA posted by pat bunn on May 18, 2012
Hey Pat!....I never got one on the air but listen from time to time. I think USC might be too close for me to catch. I'm seeing RY, MP and EH regularly though. I tried a QRSS beacon to 10.140 but never could see myself on a grabber.
The 22M beacons got my interest though. I'd like to get something going on 22M.
On another subject, Is anyone getting something going for the future 479KHz band? Any kits? I have a nice DDS VFO that will work there and might try that....Later....Bob...EDJ...
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by Pat Bunn on May 21, 2012 at 23:44:08.
In reply to Re: HiFER's in North GA posted by Bob C on May 21, 2012
I am collecting parts for a variometer and antenna. I have an experimental license for 8 watt eirp so I am also building a 500 watt transmitter. 500 KHz would be a good band for SC to GA QSOs
Done any rocketry lately. I got recertified a few years ago but haven't done anything in years. Still have some parts and motors.
Pat
Re: HiFER's in North GA
Posted by Bob C on May 22, 2012 at 14:21:10.
In reply to Re: HiFER's in North GA posted by Pat Bunn on May 21, 2012
Great on the antenna and TX!....I was thinking of a beacon
perhaps in the 472 - 479 band. I don't know if there are any
band plans as yet but would think a slot would be allocated to them.
Have not been doing rockets for quite a while. Mostly RC now.
After moving to Monroe,GA many years back and Steve Fouche
with his back problems, I kind of got out of it. Too much
politics in that sport now....and ATF woes.
You can use (e-mail above) for the OT stuff....Later...Bob EDJ
Re: NDBFinder
Posted by The Other Lee on May 25, 2012 at 15:01:38.
In reply to Re: NDBFinder posted by Darwin Long on May 14, 2012
Thanks for the feedback, Darwin. Looks as if NDBF is capable of quite a bit but is not much used by the community, even so.
I think I'll have to invest in it and see what it can do for me.
Thanks for the feedback.
Lee
Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 25, 2012 at 19:06:14.
Hifer COM has moved again to 13555.415-425, my original intent was to operate around the watering hole but it took a bit of work to find the right combination of components to make that happen, if I interfere with ry here I think I can tweak the frequency slightly.
I'm also running a dipole cut for 14.200 and don't know of any way to effectively measure swr. If I were to connect my oscilloscope and antenna to the antenna side of my atu and tune for maximum voltage would that translate to maximum power into the antenna? Or is there a way to measure swr at low power levels with simple equipment?
Thanks,
Matt Burns Re: Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question
kc8com
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 25, 2012 at 21:25:41.
In reply to Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 25, 2012
G'day Matt,
I haven't built one of these so I cannot give you a first-hand report. It looks interesting though.
http://ludens.cl/Electron/swr/swr.html
Not sure if it can be used to tune an antenna by itself to resonance (X = 0, but R = ?), but as it is a bridge circuit it should work to find the 50 + j0 point with an ATU between it and the antenna.
Note that it needs to be switched out of circuit after tuning as it introduces a 6dB loss.
Although I have sent off for an MFJ-813 in the hope it will be sensitive enough for QRPp, I think I will build one up of these anyway to evaluate it. I don't have any germanium diodes so I will have to buy some.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 26, 2012 at 15:06:35.
In reply to Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 25, 2012
Hi Matt, Re: Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question
You can try a noise bridge for 50 ohm match, which I did initially. Also use an antenna tuner in the line and tune for max out on a field strength meter which I did too.
later........
Posted by Paul on May 26, 2012 at 19:43:16.
In reply to Hifer COM qsy again+antenna matching question posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 25, 2012
The MFJ 259B covers the HiFer band, and will work nicely. Unless...
Since my HiFer is in a high RF environment (Mountaintop transmitter site), the MFJ doesn't work well on mine (says SWR is sky high, no matter what). I end up having to use an IFR 1200 service monitor with a tracking generator and a bridge to adjust the antenna. Just tune for maximum return loss at HiFer freq., and BINGO!
Hifers Copied in Maine
Posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on May 26, 2012 at 23:56:24.
At various times today, NC, EH, SIW, and MP have been visible, occasionally audible. GNK has been coming through nicely on 13563.99, and FRC is now copyable by ear at 2350Z on 13565.04. RY operation will be intermittent for a few days.
John, W1TAG (at the Raymond, Maine QTH)
Re: Hifers Copied in Maine
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 27, 2012 at 01:05:39.
In reply to Hifers Copied in Maine posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on May 26, 2012
John, after I saw your report I powered down hifer SIW briefly to look myself. Saw EH and NC very well here at the "watering hole" and also USC with QRSS3 on 13554010 Hz. Best I could do with FRC was to detect it on a QRSS3 waterfall - couldn't copy the CW at 0100Z.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: Hifers Copied in Maine
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 27, 2012 at 04:01:54.
In reply to Hifers Copied in Maine posted by John Andrews, W1TAG on May 26, 2012
Also hearing a variety of stations during the day(26 May) and during the evening(27May) UT. WV on ~13556 KHz has been in and out all day, reaching 449 at times. Also SZX on ~13563 and GNK on ~13564 also up to 449, quite strong at times during the afternoon and early evening. However, K6FRC for some reason is much weaker than usual, with only the ' 6F ' part heard from time to time--and this after 0300 UT--later than usual. Poor propagation to the west from here. Ed WSlidell, LA EM50cg
HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 28, 2012 at 20:43:44.
The regular appearance of "EH" was missing from the captures of the VK2XV grabber this morning whilst "SIW" and "NC" made it through. (See http://vk2xv-hifer.blogspot.com )
Is it unusual conditions or is "EH" off the air or perhaps QSY-ed out of the HiFER waterhole window ?
73 Steve VK2XV
hifer wv
Posted by michael tyler on May 29, 2012 at 01:15:10.
Has anybody heard wv lately? I had some water damage and did some repairs and have not received a report since..The power is 4 milliwatt and the swr is 1:1 into the 12 vertical. any report would be appreciated. thanks..mike..wa8ywo
Re: hifer wv
Posted by John Davis on May 29, 2012 at 04:53:37.
In reply to hifer wv posted by michael tyler on May 29, 2012
Right at a month since I last heard WV--April 28--although that's the next-to-last last chance I've had to listen, too. (Later, on May 6, I saw several folks on Argo, but was unable to copy anyone in regular CW that same day.)
The effort to establish a semi-permanent listening post on the farm will make monitoring much more pleasant, but in the interim, it has made listening nearly impossible lately. I will make it a point to try for your signal late on Monday, though.
John
Re: hifer wv
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 29, 2012 at 05:10:28.
In reply to hifer wv posted by michael tyler on May 29, 2012
Hey Mike,
Ed Slidell had you on 5-27 "WV on ~13556 KHz has been in and out all day, reaching 449 at times." (copied from his 5-27 post on this board)
Matt
Re: hifer wv
Posted by John, W1TAG on May 29, 2012 at 12:54:55.
In reply to Re: hifer wv posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 29, 2012
Matt,
I had looked over the last few days, but was just following the programmed stops in my Icom R75. Turns out there wasn't one in there for WV, despite my memory to the contrary. After looking up your frequency from last summer's notes, I found you in the midst of a thunderstorm on the same 13555.81 kHz this morning.
So, it's working, and you're right where you were last year. Now can you make this thunderstorm go away?
John, W1TAG/1 at the Maine QTH (FN43sv)
Re: hifer wv--29 May, 2012
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 29, 2012 at 14:15:35.
In reply to Re: hifer wv posted by John, W1TAG on May 29, 2012
Hi Matt and all. WV on ~13556 KHz is coming in here also this morning, but only appearing now and again. About 339 when strongest. A little lower the MP cw id can be heard every so often. The only other signal heard this morning is GNK around 13564 KHz, with a good, consistent signal of 3/4-3/4-9. Ed WSlidell,LA EM50cg
Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 29, 2012 at 14:54:32.
In reply to HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 28, 2012
Steve, Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
I did some hifer listening/ grabbing and forgot to turn EH back on. I discovered it was off late afternoon yesterday.
It's on now, I made some mods for frequency stability with compensating caps last week.
later........Sal
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 29, 2012 at 16:43:32.
In reply to Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK... posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 29, 2012
Sal, I just shut down SIW to look for your signal and EH is in there fine, along with John's RY.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 29, 2012 at 20:54:22.
In reply to Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK... posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 29, 2012
Sal,
Looking forward to seeing "EH" on the grabber again.
Thanks.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: hifer wv
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 29, 2012 at 20:57:52.
In reply to Re: hifer wv posted by John, W1TAG on May 29, 2012
Just a clarification, Mike runs WV, I run COM which is on 13555415 at the moment. I moved from the listed 13556410 to try to make it to the vk2xv grabber, no luck yet.
I'm getting thunder storms here at the moment...or at least ominous looking dark clouds and thunder.
Matt
what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012 at 01:34:38.
what kind of antenna are you using on your hifer ???? i am using a 12 foot vertical with a hom emade LC tuner on WV.
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Matt Burns kc8com on May 30, 2012 at 01:57:06.
In reply to what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012
I'm running a 1/2 wave dipole cut for 20 meters, it's about 10 feet above ground level and probably 200 feet up the side of a hill. I may try a vertical as time permits.
Matt
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Paul on May 30, 2012 at 06:14:29.
In reply to what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012
Running a 20m Hamstick mobile antenna on the roof of a metal building (fed with about 20 feet of LMR-240 coax cable) at the peak of a 1,000 foot mountain with nothing around for >40 miles in most directions.
On the other end of the coax is a big helical bandpass filter on the output of a transmitter no bigger than your thumb. Output power is about 8 mW. Power supply is a 10 volt, 100 ma. "wall wart".
Seems to work OK.
Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 30, 2012 at 06:52:06.
In reply to Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK... posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 29, 2012
G'day Sal,
I can see the return of "EH" to the VK2XV grabber.
You might consider moving up a bit as you are sitting pretty close to SIW. Maybe go up about 20Hz or 30Hz ?
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Domenic on May 30, 2012 at 07:27:42.
In reply to what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012
The GNK beacon is a 22 meter attic dipole strung SE TO NW. The attic (my antenna farm) is the 3rd floor. Also interested in knowing what other beacons are using.
Domenic KC9GNK Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK...
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 30, 2012 at 14:43:09.
In reply to Re: HiFER "EH" NOT seen in VK... posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 29, 2012
Thanx dude
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Pat Bunn on May 30, 2012 at 15:27:17.
In reply to what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012
1/4 Wave ground plane elevated to 25 feet.
Pat Bunn Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
N4LTA
Posted by Paul on May 30, 2012 at 21:40:59.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by Paul on May 30, 2012
Upon re-reading this, I should point out that the 8 mW I mentioned is from the transmitter into the dual helical resonator bandpass filter, not to the antenna. The filter has about 4 dB of loss, and the Polyphaser adds about .2 dB loss. Total power to the antenna is closer to 2.2 milliwatts!
Sorry for the confusion.
Either way, that is a LOT of miles per milliwatt.
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 31, 2012 at 01:49:01.
In reply to what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 30, 2012
Hi Mike, Paul, and all. What kind of ground plane/radials or counterpoise(if any) do you have under the 12 ft vertical? Also, Paul, you previously mentioned in a post, checking/measuring the field strength of your system. Was that done with a standard antenna(a loop or a meter long whip?)and a specialized FSM? Thanks, Ed WSlidell, LA EM50cg
Watering hole Hifers in IL
Posted by Garry K3SIW on May 31, 2012 at 02:32:53.
Lots of QSB this evening but at various times seeing NC on 13555490 Hz (low FSK tone), EH on 13555468 (low tone, reverse DFCW), RY centered on 13555410 Hz (DFCW), and USC centered on 13555400 Hz (DFCW).
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by michael tyler on May 31, 2012 at 02:55:21.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 31, 2012
my 12 foot vertical has only 4-15 foot radials buried just under the grass...the antenna and tranmitter box are mounted on a 2 inch piece of pipe about 24 inches above the ground....mike
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 31, 2012 at 13:16:12.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by michael tyler on May 31, 2012
Hi Mike, tks for the info. It gets out pretty well, and generally I hear it all during the day, even if only for a single ID or two. I put up a 19.5 ft thin-walled section of "top-rail" left over from a dismantled fence. There are six 18 ft radials under it, running over the two small sheds where the ant is mounted up about 8 feet. They are clear of all but the tallest NBA players. I havn't measured the impedance, but using a tuner I can't get any improvement in the rcvd signal strength over a direct connexion. However, that said, my 143 ft LW(to ENE) generally gets better all around reception on 22m, if for no reason other than it picks up less QRN. I gess that most noise IS vertically polarized. Will hav to try a 22m dipole like Dominic's, since he seems to have a good signal throughout most of the day. Ed WSlidel,LA EM50cg
Re: Watering hole Hifers in IL
Posted by Pat Bunn on May 31, 2012 at 13:48:59.
In reply to Watering hole Hifers in IL posted by Garry K3SIW on May 31, 2012
Thanks for the report on USC. I have moved it to the watering hole and it is now on a temporary dipole antenna.
It will go on the elevated 1/4 wave vertical ground plane antenna as soon as I get the oven completed (for better stability). The present antenna is not a good one.
Pat Bunn hifer gelevated install
N4LTA
Posted by robert c on May 31, 2012 at 16:38:31.
possible solution to 15.219 ground lead issues? see illustration. any sort of highly shielded coax can be used. rg6qs is probably best when small flexible lead is needed, hardline or lmr for large elevated outdoor installs that use a direct connection to ground and don't require routing around objects to attain ground.
illustration Re: medfer elevated install
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff336/kc8gpd/15219abgroundlead.jpg
Posted by robert c on May 31, 2012 at 16:50:51.
In reply to hifer gelevated install posted by robert c on May 31, 2012
should be medfer not hifer
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Paul on May 31, 2012 at 17:14:17.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 31, 2012
I use a Potomac Instruments FIM for field strength measurements.
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by Paul on May 31, 2012 at 17:22:22.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by Paul on May 31, 2012
I always think of something else AFTER hitting "Submit"....
The FIM unit I have is no longer in production. The one they make now only covers to 5.0 MHz.
It was last calibrated 3 years ago, and I'm not sure of they will calibrate it in the future. But since I almost never work on SW stations anymore, I guess it isn;t important. For HiFer use, it's probably plenty close enough.
Maybe I can start a business measuring HiFers? Anyone want to spend a thousand dollars to measure the field from a 5 dollar transmitter?
Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using???
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 31, 2012 at 19:11:22.
In reply to Re: what kind of hifer antenna are you using??? posted by Paul on May 31, 2012
Now you're talking Paul. Does that include the cost of the helo flight to site as well as waiting time? Your Potomac FIM has a standard length antenna(1 meter?) or a loop antenna for making measurements? Ed WSlidell,LA EM50cg
HiFER "USC" seen in VK ?...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 31, 2012 at 20:08:15.
Last night I noticed a trace just below 13555400Hz. At first I thought it was "RY", but then as it grew slightly stronger I ruled it out. Then I thought it was "COM", but then I ruled it out as it wasn't a "NC"-like fixed squarewave - instead it had an FSKCW/DFCW ID. Unfortunately I couldn't decode the ID.
However, Garry (K3SIW) sent me an email with a local capture and it is apparently "USC" (thanks Garry !!!). And I also notice that Pat (N4LTA) has posted here that he has moved "USC" into the waterhole @ 13555400Hz.
So I am pretty sure based on that evidence that the trace is "USC".
A case of seen but no positive ID decode - yet. Conditions are not so flash at the moment, but, as for the "RY" case, better conditions should see a positive ID.
I will post the best capture to my HiFER blog in the next couple of hours (by 2300utc).
73 Steve VK2XV
Gathering at the waterhole...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 31, 2012 at 20:34:33.
It is good to see more stations gathering at the waterhole. There is real value attached to this, at the risk of stating the obvious, because it has been demonstrated that the times when a particular US QTH has the best path to VK varies from hour to hour and day to day. Concentrating on individual stations separately is a bit of a game of chance.
It is getting a little crowded at the waterhole and so I will be looking at increasing ARGO's window height to 1000 pixels. That should add about another 100Hz to the window. There are penalties for that in terms of grabber capture file size (and it will not fit nicely on my grabber-monitoring laptop screen without scrolling) and I will need to weigh them up.
73 Steve VK2XV
Re: HiFER "USC" seen in VK ? - Blog Post...
Posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 31, 2012 at 23:23:00.
In reply to HiFER "USC" seen in VK ?... posted by Steve Olney VK2XV on May 31, 2012
Captures of the partial ID of "USC" have been posted to the blog...
http://vk2xv-hifer.blogspot.com
73 Steve VK2XV
potrzebie