HiFER 'MTI' shutting down -- temporarily
Aloha folks, I'm going to be shutting down HiFER 'MTI' on May 29th, 2013. This will not be a permanent termination of HiFER 'MTI', we are just relocating to the new QTH(EM73vt). If all goes well, we should be back in operation by the end of June, if not sooner. I will post on this thread and start a new thread upon full reactivation of 'MTI' with updated details for the master list.
SO, if you have not added 'MTI' from our Maryland location(FM19og), you have a few remaining weeks to do so.
Mahalo, Lowfer SIW QRT
Thom-AB3MM-MTI
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 02, 2013 at 11:33:34.
Lowfer SIW was shut down for the summer yesterday afternoon. Look forward to putting it back on the air next fall. The SIW Hifers are still active on 13.5 MHz.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
hifer "N" test
Posted by Sal,K!RGO on May 02, 2013 at 14:35:58.
I am testing a new hifer beacon sending N,QRSS3 on 13.555520. For anyone copying it, I'm all ears, Re: hifer "N" test
later....Sal, K1RGO
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 02, 2013 at 15:17:08.
In reply to hifer "N" test posted by Sal,K!RGO on May 02, 2013
Sal, I see "N" fine at about 13555552 Hz. Strong, but a few dB below EH. NC and USC are somewhat weaker. EH is drifting downward at the moment while N seems stable.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
new beaconHell
Posted by keith schaffrath on May 02, 2013 at 18:58:49.
Hello fellas,
just put a beacon on the air. ORS at ~ 13,555,650.
Keith
Hifers here yesterday
Posted by Mark, ku7z on May 04, 2013 at 13:00:22.
I posted a couple of screen grabs from monitoring for the Hifers yesterday (here). Sure is tough at times with the codar interference.
Mark, ku7z Re: new beaconHell
dn41af
Ogden, Northern UT (NUT)
Posted by Mark, Ku7z on May 04, 2013 at 14:01:30.
In reply to new beaconHell posted by keith schaffrath on May 02, 2013
I went back over the captures from yesterday and might have some traces of you above NC around 2200 utc and again at 2248 utc. Will have to try again today,
Mark, Ku7z Re: new beaconHell
DN41af
Ogden, Northern UT (NUT)
Posted by keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013 at 14:29:17.
In reply to Re: new beaconHell posted by Mark, Ku7z on May 04, 2013
Thanks Mark,
Im running an as9851 dds to a 2n2222 with a LPF after it, about 5mw out to a dipole. the keyer is an attiny that also
controls a resistor/thermistor for the temperature control
on the xtal. its been sitting on 13,555,640. Its intresting
watching the fading in and out on the beacons during the morning and evening.
73, Re: frequency change
Keith
Posted by Keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013 at 14:43:56.
In reply to Re: new beaconHell posted by keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013
reprogrammed ORS to move it from 13555.640 to 13555.480
Keith Re: frequency change again
Posted by Keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013 at 14:58:10.
In reply to Re: frequency change posted by Keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013
After looking on the beacon list and the captures 15,555,525 looked like a better spot.
Keith
Re: frequency change again
Posted by John Davis on May 07, 2013 at 19:39:06.
In reply to Re: frequency change again posted by Keith N6ORS on May 04, 2013
What mode, please?
Re: frequency change again
Posted by Keith N6ORS on May 08, 2013 at 13:51:43.
In reply to Re: frequency change again posted by John Davis on May 07, 2013
Hi John,
The mode is FSK QRSS3, and the frequency is 13555470.
QTH is westfield WI. 43.5N 89.3W. Power out is 5mw into
a sloping dipole orientated NE/SW.
Keith
Receiver Opinion
Posted by Bill Marvin on May 09, 2013 at 02:41:07.
Hi Group Does anyone have experience with a WJ 87111A with Pre-Amp? I have not used any WJ's
Best Dx
Bill KB9IV
under water vlf
Posted by robert rode on May 09, 2013 at 08:41:07.
Has any one information on under water radio control on vlf to control model boats ? I read about it long ago, where hobby people were using it for r/c submarines. I think it would make a fantastic project. many thanks, Robert Rode..KB9YR.
Re: under water vlf
Posted by robert rode on May 10, 2013 at 01:18:59.
In reply to under water vlf posted by robert rode on May 09, 2013
..Was thinking abt a random length wire along the shore line of local pond where we run r/c boats. maybe submerged, hide a transmitter in the weeds, "the guys wouldnt under stand" and remote control it with normal looking r/c radio. would have to run a up-converter in the craft, of sorts. I have no idea of range to expect. It would be an absolute turn on for me ! please your comments/ideas. Thanks
Re: under water vlf
Posted by John Davis on May 10, 2013 at 19:48:45.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by robert rode on May 10, 2013
A friend and I toyed with a similar project many years ago, but never got very far, due to lack of resources to build an adequate submarine for the task. Plus, sufficient battery power was a challenge. If one can manage the shell and waterproofing adequately, however, modern lithium battery technology should make the power supply problems a lot easier to deal with. And nowadays, one should be able to include a bit of microprocessor control onboard to simplify control requirements and provide some sort of failsafe behavior in the event radio control is lost.
In connection with this project, I did some experiments at true VLF, meaning under 30 kHz...and more specifically, under 9 kHz for convenience in complying with FCC Part 15 radiation limits. Good clear tone detection was possible over a pond of a few acres' size, utilizing around 10 watts injected into a pair of ground systems, one at each end of the pond. (I also tried one ground on land and one in the water, but naturally this required providing an exclusion zone of netting to keep swimmers and fish away from the concentrated current near the immersed "antenna." I had personal experience of the field in the water near the antenna, and it was not pleasant.) The audio frequency currents dispersed nicely in the fresh water of the pond, as confirmed by probes I lowered from a non-metallic boat on the surface, but this technique does exhibit considerable directionality. We struggled a bit to achieve a sort of space-diversity reception capability via three or more short probes spaced around the body of the prototype sub.
While this method depended on a combination of electric field and/or dispersion currents in the water, an alternative would be to encircle the body of water with a continuous loop and pump enough current into it to utilize the magnetic induction field. For this approach, you would probably want to use one receiving loop in the horizontal plane and one in the vertical, to ensure reception regardless of the orientation of the sub at any given time.
You could also actually try setting up a "normal" Part 15 LowFER station with a vertical antenna in the 160-190 kHz band and key it with the control signals. RF at those frequencies will penetrate the surface of fresh water for several feet.
Returning telemetry from the sub was another challenge that we never entirely solved back then. We considered ultrasound, using peizo elements from depth finders, which would have had the advantage of also letting us "direction find" to determine the sub's location, provided we were both separated far enough along the shore for triangulation purposes. So far as radio goes, being hams, we found that the six meter band propagated reasonable well in water, and if directed upward, made the surface of the pond radiate in a quasi-isotropic fashion. It was not easy to couple RF to an immersed antenna under those conditions, though. For one thing,the dipole had to be much shorter than in air. And given the way the RF spread out from the water-air interface, it was pretty much a one-way path. We never got around to experimenting with other bands, alas.
John
Re: under water vlf
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 10, 2013 at 20:16:32.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by John Davis on May 10, 2013
Nice experimenting, John. I ran cw tests at 3kHz with 2' loops for a 100 meter range. This maybe could have been a form of cave communication but I didnt do cave to above ground tests, I was just bored that day. Re: under water vlf
later Sal..........
Posted by John Davis on May 11, 2013 at 06:11:28.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 10, 2013
>>> Nice experimenting, John.
When the neighbors already think you're from another planet to begin with, it frees you to think outside the box and be seen doing things that make no sense to "normal" folks. :~)
>>> I ran cw tests at 3kHz .... This maybe could have been a form of cave communication....
I'm glad you mentioned that subject, Sal. Yes, cave radio and what Robert wants to try definitely do have a lot in common. A good place to start looking for potentially useful information would be the every-so-often publication of the Communications and Electronics Section of the National Speleological Society. Back issues of Speleonics can be found online at:
http://caves.org/section/commelect/drupal/speleonics
The equivalent organization in the UK is the Cave Radio & Electronics Group, and their website (CREG) may also inspire some ideas to follow up. Some of their personnel are amateur radio operators with considerable LF and VLF experience.
John
Re: under water vlf
Posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 11, 2013 at 15:05:36.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 10, 2013
I know what you mean about the neighbors, I've got that "look" when I was tracking sphereics with my L-600 loop in the back yard among other antenna projects. Re: under water vlf
later...
Posted by Lee on May 13, 2013 at 06:47:08.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by Sal,K1RGO on May 11, 2013
Really interesting man. Thanks. I am fascinated by RF projects in the sub 10K range. There is a web site devoted to to a 10K station in Anartica using a multi kilometer antenna a few feet off the ground driven by Pro Hafler slavable audio power amps! Cool beans. Re: under water vlf
Lee
Posted by robert rode on May 14, 2013 at 06:12:05.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by Lee on May 13, 2013
this to John, Sal, and Lee,...many thanks guys for nice comments and info,..had no where else to go !..I got involved long ago, when Ken Cornell was running the show with Lowfers,. I have both his books and made a few items back then,,,Very noisy this qth fromvapor lites etc,..Had nice Rohn 48 tower with 20 feet water pipe out the top with my vhf/uhf stuff, gave it away to my regret because of the electical noise,.. wud drive me to tears trying to qso some guy in east pago-pago using 10 watts and wire in his favorite banana tree ! Lee, just looked up abt, Palmer station and Siple station antarctica..at nite I sit in the dark with just 15 watt bulb swinging and watch shadows running around the floor Gud hear Omega stns very well ,, BYE
Re: under water vlf
Posted by Robert Rode KB9YR on May 14, 2013 at 06:41:52.
In reply to Re: under water vlf posted by John Davis on May 11, 2013
so interesting again you guys,. Last time I was under Lookout Mnt. Chattanooga, Tn., Ruby Falls, I thot long and hard abt all this spelunkers activity,.Read some where some people can take a large coil of wire down with them, and with oscillator can be found by some one on the surface using vlf and able to send a pipe down to him at almost the exact spot the coil is,.Also under Mammoth Cave in ky., the guide sed the cave is really not known its length exactly,.and some people are sensitive enough to "feel" low freqs resonating in there from the Navy "Sub." station in Michigan,.wow ! no end to it, is there ? BYE
Re: Hifers here yesterday
Posted by Neil on May 15, 2013 at 18:00:42.
In reply to Hifers here yesterday posted by Mark, ku7z on May 04, 2013
Couple of points:
You can find anything you want on the internet. This is an interesting corner.
Waterfalls are beautiful things.
Never heard of HiFER until a few minutes ago. Was looking for information about [antique] "heterodyne frequency meters" on Wikipedia. (They had nothing.) One link lead to another...
4.8 mW? Watch out for high voltage.
-neil-
Hifer K6FRC
Posted by Ralph KD8GBK on May 18, 2013 at 23:49:18.
Hi Gang, Nice ear copy of K6FRC today, had him QSA1 this morning 1500z 18 May, but lost him and all Spectran trace, but picked him up again at 2330z 18 May QSA2 this evening on 13.565, from my QTH EN56 is 1782 miles! Nice ear copy DX! FB OM 73..
Sunday HiFERs May 26
Posted by John Davis on May 27, 2013 at 06:43:37.
Today was the first day since our localized flooding of last week that I also didn;t have to spend most of the day at work one place or another, so I went out to the field this afternoon for DX. Storms in Montana, Iowa, and eventually Nebraska conspired to make LF unproductive, but HF was quieter... although rather ionospherically disturbed.
In mid-afternoon, I was seeing USC fairly steady, MP with a lot of short and intermediate-term QSB breaking up some of the dashes, EH weakly, and NC fairly strong most of the time, but with longer term QSB. Neither of the SIWs was visible. The MUF map linked on our solar-terrestrial page indicated that the path to the northeast was marginal, and indeed it was. Between here and the Carolinas looked better on the map, and that also proved to be. No sign of any of the conventional CW beacons, unfortunately. I returned to town temporarily.
Later, the approach of the grayline appeared to indicate a northward shift of higher MUFs, so I returned to the field about 20 minutes before dark. As has been the case in the late afternoon several times this year, there were the SIWs right where they should be. About 10 minutes after sunset, they dipped in level abruptly, but this time they gradually returned beginning about 10 minutes afterward. Still going about an hour later when I abandoned my post for the (relative) comforts of home.
In addition to USC, MP, and EH looking cleaner this evening than during the afternoon session, there was another signal above EH showing up in bits and pieces. It looked like it might be a squarewave FSK. If so, this just might have been the first time I've seen COM in ages! Can't really be sure from this evening's captures, though, as it's still too broken up. I'll try again Monday, weather permitting, to see if I can be more certain. (Chance of isolated t-storms in the forecast, alas.)
Can't quite fathom yet why I am only able to see SIW late in the day this year, when it came through nearly all day this time last year. Something upstairs must have changed the distance of the skip zone. Still comes in great when it comes in at all, though.
John Re: Sunday HiFERs May 26
Posted by Ward K7PO on May 27, 2013 at 16:57:46.
In reply to Sunday HiFERs May 26 posted by John Davis on May 27, 2013
Back in AZ after the annual Dayton roadtrip. Hifer conditions for me on this trip were poor. Heard GNK briefly on the way out, in AZ, and heard AJO for about 10 minutes, weak, in central Texas. That's it.
This was the worst trip for Hifers in the last several years, and each year I seem to log less stations. I'll try again next May.
Ward K7PO
Re: Sunday HiFERs May 26
Posted by John, W1TAG on May 27, 2013 at 17:42:46.
In reply to Sunday HiFERs May 26 posted by John Davis on May 27, 2013
Up in southern Maine over the long weekend, USC, the SIW's and NC were pretty much continuously visible. USC seems to consistently have the strongest signal here, followed by NC and SIW. MP was nicely spaced above USC, but only visible for short periods. EH kept making ghostly appearances, but there were long periods without it.
Tuning around, the only CW signal copied was GNK, which seemed to be there every time.
LF reception has been poor due to local interference.
John, W1TAG
Re: Sunday HiFERs May 26
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 27, 2013 at 18:43:15.
In reply to Re: Sunday HiFERs May 26 posted by John, W1TAG on May 27, 2013
Hello all. The previous weekend(18/19 May) was poor, probaly due to the solar events mentioned on WWV. Only MTI and GNK were heard with weak signals. This current weekend (25/26 May) seems much improved. MTI on ~13557.5 KHz was reaching 449 at times, as its temporary shutdown approached. It may reappear out of the skip zone and not be heard as well again. Also heard about the same level, but only for a very brief period was AJO right above ~13558 KHz. First time heard in quite a while. SZX on ~13563 KHz, about 339/349, and GNK on ~13564 KHz, about 449 were heard well also. K6FRC ~13565 was only heard with weaker signals, 2/3-3-9, intermittently, before 2200 UT, on 26 May. GNK's new roof must contain some 'active' roofing material, as the signal seems to always be there, unless the band is really dead. Ed W Slidell, LA EM50cg
Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries
Posted by John Davis on May 28, 2013 at 04:21:17.
It looked safe enough from showers to go to the field about half an hour before sunset today, but there was the most awful broadband caterwauling you ever heard from around 13551 to 13558.5 kHz. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't Part 15 compliant. I'm calling it Mystery Signal #1. Anyone else hear this?
Ranging from AGC threshold to S4 or S5, it obliterated all possible aural reception in the lower half of the band, so I tuned up above the midpoint and caught GNK at 8:21 PM CDT. It was undergoing wide level swings, but entire IDs were clear at times. There was a trace of what might have been SZX, but I never could be sure. And about 8:25 PM, I copied one nice distinct "K6FRC" before QSB took it back to a letter here, and a letter there.
Cranking up Argo, I ventured back down to the watering hole. Even though the QRM was still horrendous, like magic, there was fair copy on USC, barely recognizable traces of MP, and once again what may have been bits of COM. Then there was the SIW duo coming through quite nicely, even though the broadband noise had a dozens-of-Hertz wide peak centered right over them. Above SIW, EH was struggling to get through, and then NC, also subject to deep fades. Because the noise source was so truly broadband, I was able to raise the drive to the clipper enough to keep the LEDs lit continuously, which brought the SIW ramp out of the noise even better than before. The background dimmed a bit on the 3-second version, but darkened appreciably on the 10-second mode.
After several minutes, another FSK signal started showing up out of nowhere, down on the low side of USC. It too was struggling to be seen, and as EH gradually emerged from the worst of the sunset fades, so did this signal. By about 8:50, it had become strong enough to see that it actually was EH (or as I'll call it for purposes of this discussion, "fake EH.") Whatever this Mystery Signal #2 was, it was keyed synchronously with "real EH." However, lest one suppose it to be a post-processing artifact, there is good evidence that it was not an intermod product of the clipper.
For one thing, "fake EH" was exactly 100 Hz below "real EH," and the keying was in the same direction. There was no single signal at 100 Hz in the passband, and there were no two other signals continuously separated by 100 Hz either that might have caused such an odd mixing product. Moreover, the level of "fake EH" did not prefectly track that of "real EH." The two came and went in approximately the same proportion, but not all the time! I actually witnessed a couple of instances when "fake EH" was present, but "real EH" was below the noise for a dot length or so! This suggests that, wherever the second signal originated, it was far enough ahead of the receiver to undergo short-term propagation fluctuations of its own somewhat independently of "real EH."
Now, a final mystery that somehow seems to tie these first two together, but I can't imagine the connection. At 8:55 PM CDT, Mystery Signal #1 (the broadband noise source) STOPPED. When it did, the SIWs became nice and solid, and so did "real EH." But guess what? At that same moment, Mystery Signal #2 ("fake EH") went away too! Quick, somebody call Columbo... Jessica Fletcher... Mannix... anybody!
Sal, you weren't trying to adapt a diathermy machine as a new transmitter for EH, were you? ;~)
At any rate, over the next several minutes, USC, MP, and the maybe-COM all gradually faded out and never re-appeared. NC lingered a little longer, then it went away too. In the end, when the languid twilight finally gave way to distant lightning flashes about 10 PM, all that remained were the SIW duo and real EH, shining just as bright and clear as could be. LF was a totally lost cause, though, so I returned to town.
John
Re: Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 28, 2013 at 13:12:26.
In reply to Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries posted by John Davis on May 28, 2013
Hi John. I did listen yesterday during the period you mentioned, possibly an hour before the interference quit. It was a 'garglely' varying signal, and the only thing heard below 13556 KHz was one stronger QRSS type signal. None of the CW beacons were noted, so I turned-off the radio and left it alone. What is the 'sampling' or 'update/refresh' rate of your display system? It sounds like some artifact of the interference and real signal. Ed W Slidell, LA EM50cg
DGPS daytime DX
Posted by Garry, K3SIW on May 28, 2013 at 16:08:32.
Captures of DGPS decodes for stations in Pueblo, CO and Hackleburg, AL can be viewed at http://lwca.org/community/YaBB.pl?board=pt15Reception.
73, Garry, K3SIW, EN52ta, Elgin, IL
Re: Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries
Posted by John Davis on May 28, 2013 at 20:54:55.
In reply to Re: Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 28, 2013
Hi Ed,
Your description of Mystery Signal #1 matches what I heard at certain filter bandwidths. At my narrowest BW, it was just a broadband screech right at the watering hole frequency. If anyone else heard it, please advise...especially if you have any direction finding capability.
As for Mystery Signal #2:
"What is the 'sampling' or 'update/refresh' rate of your display system? It sounds like some artifact of the interference and real signal."
The sound card sample rate is 11.025 kHz. The audio going in was well filtered to the band 650-950 Hz, and the level at the DAC was safely below overload by 30 dB or more, so we can be pretty sure that's not where it originated.
With the audio clipper inline, there can certainly be mixing products, but I could not find any continuous signal of steady frequency in the passband to account for it. Everything else was keyed on-off or was being frequency shift keyed the whole time. Plus, as I mentioned, there were short-term level variations between "real EH" and the unknown copy that are pretty unlikely to arise from a reception artifact.
John
Re: Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries
Posted by EdWSlidell,LA on May 28, 2013 at 23:39:25.
In reply to Re: Memorial Day HiFER Mysteries posted by John Davis on May 28, 2013
Hi John, and thanks for the reply. What I was thinking was that the interference signal(s) were varying, and possibly leading to a variation in the EH(2) signal level, with the ARGO system processing making it appear to be varying as QSB would. The exact 100Hz IS mysterious. Unless EH is indeed testing a new DDS (Direct Diathermy Synthesis) transmitter. The only wierd thing I have experienced of a similar nature was in early 1971, from the South China Sea. When using CW with a Russian station on the 14MHz band, I constantly had some station coming on several seconds after he would return to me, and jamming. The signal were roughly the same strength. On the last time I listened carfully to the jamming signal, which came on about 4 seconds after the "UA" began his final transmission. Turned out it was the "UA", sending the same information again, but the signal was different in that the characters were slightly broken or "roughed up". The jamming signal went off about 4 seconds after the "UA" finished sending. I had heard of long delayed echoes(LDE's), but those were in the 10-15 second range and reported back in the 20's or 30's from Einhoven in Europe, during tests they ran. Lunar echoes, reflections from a Lagrangian point...or, more realistically, just diathermic energy stored in the earth's magnetospheric tail? Ed W Slidell, LA EM50cg
potrzebie