Alpha Transmission Towers on Google Maps - how tall are they?
I checked today the site of the Russian Alpha Transmission Towers in order to find out how tall they are by using googlemaps. From three sites, I got good pictures.
These sites are:
Alpha Transmitter Krasnodar
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&ll=45.405,38.158056&spn=0.3,0.3&t=k
Alpha Transmitter Revda
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&ll=68.035556,34.683333&spn=0.3,0.3&t=k
Alpha Transmitter Seyda
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&ll=39.471111,62.718611&spn=0.3,0.3&t=k
All these masts look extremely tall and I will not exclude that the latter is world's tallest tower and that this record was kept secret. Nevertheless I have no informations over their height. Re: Alpha Transmission Towers on Google Maps - how tall are they?
Posted by Alan G3NYK on June 01, 2006 at 19:45:05.
In reply to Alpha Transmission Towers on Google Maps - how tall are they? posted by Hunfried on June 01, 2006
Hi Hunfried, are there any shadows showing on the map if so you may be able able to make an estimate from their length. If you know the time and location you know the sun angle. Else can you see shadows of smaller known object (house ?) that you can scale against.
Alan G3NYK
SAQ 17.2KHz Transmission June 5
Posted by Todd WD4NGG on June 05, 2006 at 07:38:24.
The SAQ 17.2KHz transmission was apparently short this morning on June 5 at 1000 UTC. I got up at 6AM EDT and checked the WWLL Network remote VLF receiver in Sheffield, U.K. At 1010 UTC SAQ was transmitting at that time and clearly observed on the screen capture. By the time I got to my receiver between 1015-1020UTC SAQ was off the air so I was not able to copy them aurally this time. It appears SAQ was only on the air for about 15 minutes this morning. Not sure if there were any problems but in past transmissions they were usually on for about an hour or more. Will note this the next time they schedule a transmission. Wonder if anyone else heard them this time? 73 Todd WD4NGG. SAQ 17.2KHz Received in Los Angeles
Posted by Jay Flynn on June 05, 2006 at 16:55:48.
In reply to SAQ 17.2KHz Transmission June 5 posted by Todd WD4NGG on June 05, 2006
I was able to clearly "see" the signal on a spectrograph display starting at 0957 UTC until about 1013 UTC when the signal faded or they went off the air. They were already transmitting when I turned my system on at 0957 UTC.
This is the first time I have detected them here in Los Angeles.
I sent the guys at SAQ a copy of the spectrograph and am looking forward to their Fessenden Day transmission. Most efficient realizable antennas for LF and MF
Posted by Yunas on June 06, 2006 at 18:42:05.
Which would be the "ultimate" antenna for LF and MF for omnidirectional radiation?
Here my suggestions:
- ground dipole with length of half dipole = quater wavelength
- ground dipole with length of half dipole = half wavelength
- halfwave radiator
- cage antenna on grounded mast
- mast radiators arranged in a circle
and which of the following realized antennas had/has the highest gain at ground level in dB?
- Radio Mast Gabin ( 646 metre base fed mast radiator for 225 kHz, http://en.structurae.de/structures/data/index.cfm?id=s0000672 )
- Orlunda longwave transmitter ( 5 200 metres tall base fed mast radiators arranged in a circle around a 250 metre tall base fed mast radiator, frequebcy 191 kHz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave_transmitter_Orlunda )
- Transmitter Zehlendorf ( cage antenna on 359.7 metre tall grounded mast for 177 kHz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Zehlendorf )
What dB would have for comparision a grounded upfed mast radiator as used in Donebach ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Donebach , mast height: 363 metres, frequency: 153 kHz), a base fed mast radiator of same height/wavelength ratio, a T-antenna as used by BBC in Droitwich ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_transmitter_Droitwich ) and an Alexanderson antenna as used by Kalundborg Transmitter ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmitter_Kalundborg )
Re: SAQ 17.2KHz Received in Los Angeles
Posted by Jay Flynn on June 07, 2006 at 01:14:32.
In reply to SAQ 17.2KHz Received in Los Angeles posted by Jay Flynn on June 05, 2006
I will, of course, be looking forward to their "Alexanderson Day".
It was 3:30 AM and I was a little excited. Re: Most efficient realizable antennas for LF and MF
Posted by John Davis on June 07, 2006 at 06:52:46.
In reply to Most efficient realizable antennas for LF and MF posted by Yunas on June 06, 2006
I doubt that any of us here would have the necessary engineering data on the specific transmiter sites you ask about, so a dB comparison between them will have to go unanswered.
Of the antenna types that you suggest, ground dipoles are the least effective. They will radiate, but not efficiently, as their entire length is in close proximity with an unavoidably lossy medium.
Cage antennas and masts arranged in a circle (or any other geometric arrangement of multiple tuned radiators) can be quite efficient, but one cannot arbitrarily say they are more or less efficient than some other type. Their efficiency depends on the dimensions. Most of the time, such arrangements are employed because it is not feasible to construct a single large mast. If those dimensions are chosen carefully, however, the efficiency can be similar to the standard quarter-wave vertical radiator.
Of the types you list, the halfwave vertical will produce the most groundwave signal for a given input power. In addition, it has the highest radiation resistance, meaning that ground system resistance will be a smaller factor.
A 5/8 wavelength vertical would do slightly better in terms of groundwave-to-skywave ratio, but does not have as high impedance, so it is slightly more susceptible to ground system losses.
(One of the most interesting types of electrically short antenna, from an academic standpoint, involves numerous small radiators arranged in concentric circles. The number of rings, the number and spacing of the radiators in each ring, and the phasing of the power applied to each, can be tailored to maximize groundwave radiation and minimize skywave--or vice-versa--all through application of Bessel functions. The large number of radiators keeps ground losses low. Unfortunately, the number of radiators required and the difficulty of maintaining the correct phasing and power ratios to each radiator makes the Bessel ring antenna even less practical for LF and MF than a single large mast. Thus, no one actually uses this configuration in broadcasting. In cases where a single 1/4 to 5/8 wavelength vertical is impractical, the better compromise is usually two or more short radiators fed in phase, sometimes also with toploading.)
John
Ultimate antennas at RKS Liblice 2 and Taldom transmitter?
Posted by Yunas on June 07, 2006 at 14:30:15.
In reply to Re: Most efficient realizable antennas for LF and MF posted by John Davis on June 07, 2006
Does Taldom Transmitter near Taldom, Russia( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taldom_transmitter ) not use a ring antenna? One of its two antenna systems seems to be of this type. Re: Ultimate antennas at RKS Liblice 2 and Taldom transmitter?
And the second antenna of Taldom longwave transmitter consists of multiple masts interconnected in two levels. This is no standard directional longwave antenna! May this be a very effective antenna?
And RKS Liblice 2 at Liblice, Czech( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKS_Liblice_2 ) uses cage antennas on two grounded masts taller than 5 /8 of the length of radiated wavelength ( the masts of RKS Liblice 2 are 355 metres tall, the used frequency of the transmitter is 639 kHz)
May this construction be the ultimative antenna for medium wave?
Is there a medium wave transmitter in USA also using an antenna of the same type as RKS Liblice 2 does?
Posted by John Davis on June 08, 2006 at 00:04:07.
In reply to Ultimate antennas at RKS Liblice 2 and Taldom transmitter? posted by Yunas on June 07, 2006
The Liblice installation is a very nice one. However, I'm not sure I would describe that configuration as a cage, in the same sense in which the term is used at HF.
From the available pictures, it appears to be what we in the US call a folded unipole. In practice, it is a form of transmission line coupled to the radiating element, and there are quite a few employed in mediumwave AM broadcasting here. However, none are so tall. This type of antenna provides an impedance transformation that makes a quarter-wave radiator look like a taller antenna, in terms of feed point impedance, thus rendering it less susceptible to ground system losses.
It is not clear why they would want a 3/4λ radiator, however, as that necessarily introduces high-angle radiation lobes. I'd like to browse their engineering firm's Web site to see if there's some explanation, but I am far from fluent in Czech. I would probably not recognize the relevant information (to be able to have it translated) even if I saw it on a page.
The Taldom 'antenna farm' either uses a single central mast for the longwave transmission, with two or three of the surrounding masts supporting a tophat for it; or else the four tallest masts support the toploading conductors and a vertical wire to them. It is not entirely clear from the pictures which it actually is. The other apparatus visible in the pictures are recognizable as driven elements and reflectors for the shortwave antennas, and possibly some open-wire feeder lines. Nothing in the pictures suggests any unusual technology.
Longwave BC this summer
Posted by Brock-WH6SZ/4 on June 08, 2006 at 05:36:02.
Just because it's summer, don't discount longwave when the lightning static is low. Both France-Inter 162 KHz and Europe One in Germany 182 KHz at good solid levels on June 8 0230-0300 UTC. Both in French. Very little atmospheric static, and as we know, the sunspots are low. A crazy summer: E-skip on TV in the day, longwave BC at night. Re: Longwave BC this summer
Brock Whaley, GA
Posted by F4DTL on June 08, 2006 at 17:03:26.
In reply to Longwave BC this summer posted by Brock-WH6SZ/4 on June 08, 2006
2 Megawatts from the 162 kHz transmitter France Inter dear Brock.
Best regards F4DTL Re: Longwave BC this summer
Posted by Brock WH6SZ\4 on June 09, 2006 at 06:43:48.
In reply to Re: Longwave BC this summer posted by F4DTL on June 08, 2006
Just one million watts (lol) in the evening as I understand it. Europe One and RTE 252 also power down at night. Reliability of FCC-database
73's
Brock
Posted by Norton on June 09, 2006 at 15:32:55.
If you want to find out, the height and year of built of radio towers in USA, the FCC-database ( http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistrationSearch.jsp ) is a very convenient tool. But how reliable is it? Re: Reliability of FCC-database
What kind of radio towers are there and what not (I read once that LORAN-C sites are not, but I am not sure)
Posted by John Andrews on June 09, 2006 at 16:42:20.
In reply to Reliability of FCC-database posted by Norton on June 09, 2006
Norton, Yunas, whoever...
The FCC database is quite accurate for commercial tower sites. It does not include government and military sites, such as Loran-C, etc.
John Andrews Re: Longwave BC this summer
Posted by Alan G3NYK on June 09, 2006 at 19:04:17.
In reply to Longwave BC this summer posted by Brock-WH6SZ/4 on June 08, 2006
Hi Brock, yes you are right there isn't really a season for LF DX it can be very good sometimes in Summer and very poor in Winter. The major thing that seems to put people off and create a "season" is, as you say, the discomfort of listening through the lighning crashes.
Conditions can be particularly good when we have had a long spell of quiet geomagnetic conditions, about 1 to 2 nights after a small disturbance even up to minor storm (Kp=5) There were minor storms on the 6th and the 8th which fitted that description, and which may have contributed to your succesful copies.
France Inter is very very strong over here in the UK!!
Best Wishes
Alan G3NYK
I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb
Posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 11, 2006 at 05:33:32.
Hello !
I'll start today (June 11th 2006)listening on the 22 mb for Hifers. So if your transmitter is off air right now, pse fire it up again. Mail me your frequency details, and I will listen on your specific frequency. For two years ago I did recieve several Hifers here in The Netherlands like GA, LP, NC, MP, and VD.
I'll listen and look with programs like ARGO and Spectrum Lab.
73, Peter - PA1SDB ( knoll@europeweb.org )
SAQ 17.2 KHz TRANSMISSION SCHEDULE FOR JULY 2
Posted by Todd WD4NGG on June 12, 2006 at 18:39:10.
I just received word from Lars Kalland over at SAQ on their July 2 schedule -
We have just decided the following schedule on July 2nd: Re: I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb
08:30 UTC
and
12:30 UTC.
Yours
Lars/SM6NM
Good luck.
Posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 13, 2006 at 04:47:20.
In reply to I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 11, 2006
Hello,
Unfortunately I have much QRM in the 22meter HiFer band. A signal with a quick sweep (sounds like "tjip tjip tjip") between 13.485 and 13.575 MHz is strong and audible. It makes a mesh of my spectograms. It is not a local signal, because it fades out now and then. Perhaps someone can confirm it is something worldwide. I'll stay tuned for a few day's, but if this "sweep-puls" stay's on the air, then I have no hope to recieve Hifers right now...
73, Peter PA1SDB
IOMB latest
Posted by Mike Terry on June 13, 2006 at 14:22:18.
VESSEL READY FOR LONG WAIT RADIO STATION
13 June 2006
The glory days of Radio Caroline could be recaptured when the Island's latest broadcasting venture launches.
Isle of Man International Broadcasting, the firm behind the as yet unnamed long-wave radio station, is planning to begin transmitting from a ship in Ramsey bay.
It will echo the golden days of radio in the mid-1960s, when pirate station Radio Caroline steamed into the bay and brought the Island worldwide attention.
It will also mark the start of broadcasting by the long-awaited long-wave station, which has been beset by delays and problems.
This website has learned IoMIB has acquired a radio vessel called St Paul, which until last year was the base for Radio 603.
For 18 months it broadcast from the coast of the Finnish Aland islands.
The vessel is now in Denmark, preparing to come to the Island.
IoMIB will use the vessel as a temporary broadcast platform while the long-wave station proves its economic viability.
The company has permission to create a permanent transmission platform, but it is understood the company wants to show the business will work before investing several million pounds in the platform.
The ship is expected to be moored in the same position as the permanent platform was intended for.
IoMIB founder Paul Rusling said he isn't a position to comment in detail on the station's plan, but confirmed all the technical equipment needed to begin broadcasting has been secured and the antennae has been tested and is 'working well'.
The launch is now expected in July, after the Communications Commission granted another two-month extension.
Mr Rusling admitted there has been a 'minor setback' relating to finances, but that shouldn't take long to resolve. He added launching in July is 'certainly still do-able'.
It was hoped the station would be launched early last year, but technical and financial problems have seen the start date pushed back.
That has been a theme throughout the project, which battled for several years to gain planning permission for a transmitter at Cranstal before plumping for an offshore platform.
IoMIB is also hoping to announce several big names in its launch line-up, including former Radio Caroline North DJs Mick Luvzit, Emperor Rosko and 'Ugli' Ray Teret, former BBC Radio 1 DJ Mike Read and 'at least one Manx Radio personality'.
Re: I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb
Posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 14, 2006 at 05:05:14.
In reply to Re: I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 13, 2006
Hello,
Last night (01:45 UTC = 03:45 local time) I was lucky to receive Hifer GA on 13.555,322 MHz in QRSS3. There where other traces visible between 13.555,200 and 13.555,500 (my spectogram window) but it was not possible to identify them right now... I stay tuned... 73, Peter PA1SDB
Grimeton Radio/SAQ transmission July 2nd 2006
Posted by Mike Terry on June 14, 2006 at 13:29:45.
From:
Lars Kalland/SM6NM
GRIMETON RADIO/SAQ TRANSMISSION
The annual transmission on "Alexanderson Day" with the Alexanderson alternator on VLF 17,2 kHz will take place Sunday 2nd 2006 at 08:30 UTC and will be repeated at 12:30 UTC.
The station will be open to visitors.
There will be activity on amateur radio frequencies. Check our web site.
QSL-reports on SAQ are kindly received:
- E-mail to: info@alexander.n.se
- or fax to: +46-340-674195
- or via: SM bureau
- or direct by snail mail to: Alexander - Grimeton Veteranradios Vaenner, Radiostationen,
Grimeton 72
S-430 16 ROLFSTORP
SWEDEN
Also read our web site: www.alexander.n.se
Yours
Lars Kalland
SM6NM
Lowfer net on 75 meters Sundays 5PM EDT 3.810
Posted by Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ on June 15, 2006 at 21:45:28.
Hello the list,
There will be an informal net dedicated to LF topics Sundays at 5PM EDT (2100 UTC) on 3.810 LSB. Check-ins welcome!
73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
GOOD RX's
Posted by David on June 18, 2006 at 17:53:28.
SEEKING IDEAS ON AND AMATEUR RX/TRX THAT WOULD BE GOOD ON LW/MW. LIKE ONE THAT DOESNT HAVE ATT IN THE RX INPUT.
PSE REPLY TO wd4kpd@cox.net
david
Wired Wireless/ Carrier Current Communication
Posted by John Litzendraht on June 19, 2006 at 01:06:13.
Popular during WWII, carrier current was quite common, as on the air Amateur operation was prohibited here in the States.
I had an interest back in the early Sixties, but was unable to recruit any local guys to get involved.
I know it's not radio communication as such, but it is LF, and it's fun winding large coils and matching your transmitted signal to the AC power mains.
John Re: Wired Wireless/ Carrier Current Communication
Posted by John Davis on June 19, 2006 at 18:21:25.
In reply to Wired Wireless/ Carrier Current Communication posted by John Litzendraht on June 19, 2006
The catch is, LF carrier current signals are pretty much limited in coverage to the first transformer along the power grid. If one attempts brute force to cover a longer distance, he is more likely to radiate than conduct, and thereby exceed Part 15 limits.
One of the other alternatives employed by experimenters during the wartime blackout was ground current communication. That, too, suffers from inherent limitations, but nothing so definite and abrupt as where a power transformer is located.
50 khz Tuned loop antenna
Posted by Michael Chapala on June 19, 2006 at 19:43:27.
Can anyone tell me how to create a tuned 50 khz loop antenna? Re: Wired Wireless/ Carrier Current Communication
Posted by John Andrews on June 19, 2006 at 21:21:37.
In reply to Re: Wired Wireless/ Carrier Current Communication posted by John Davis on June 19, 2006
John & John,
Due to increased residential electrical demand, power distribution transformers cover a more limited area than they did during WWII. But their attenuation is just as good!
As John D. says, Part 15.209 sets the old 2400/f limit on the radiated field at 300 meters. But the conducted emissions rules may be newer. A quick read of 15.207 suggests that it would not longer be possible to feed a lot of below-the-AM - band RF into a line to gain a long distance. I'd guess that the legal coverage area would be fairly small at LF.
The 160-190 kHz, 1W and 15 meter rules still seem to be the best way to cover a decent local area.
John Andrews spectran
Posted by william barfknecht on June 20, 2006 at 02:03:08.
I downloaded spectran version 2 build 216 and after a short period of time such as 10 minutes the waterfall display stops but the graph (upper) section contiues to display incoming audio. I'm new at spectran, did I push the wrong button? If I'm not mistaken I get the ane operation from WJST_spectran . My pc is a Dell 1.2ghz speed. Re: spectran
Posted by John Andrews on June 20, 2006 at 07:03:07.
In reply to spectran posted by william barfknecht on June 20, 2006
William,
I'm not sure what's happening, but you might want to download the current version at the "official" site: www.weaksignals.com.
John Andrews Re: I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb
Posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 23, 2006 at 15:30:11.
In reply to Re: I'll start hunting for HiFers in 22 mb posted by Peter Knol PA1SDB on June 14, 2006
Last night I did copy Hifer BO here with easy to identify traces in Spectrum Lab. The opperator did not confirm it right now, but I'm 99% sure it was BO. The frequency was around 13.555,272 MHz. Samples of my spectogram's are published on my website http://members.home.nl/peter-knol/hifers/
73, Peter PA1SDB
Re: 50 khz Tuned loop antenna
Posted by Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ on June 23, 2006 at 22:52:25.
In reply to 50 khz Tuned loop antenna posted by Michael Chapala on June 19, 2006
Hi Michael,
There are a number of loop antenna articles linked from Rik Strobbe's web page:
http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136brew.htm
Also, for theory have a look at Will Payne's article:
http://www.vlf.it/octoloop/rlt-n4ywk.htm
Let me know if you are looking for something more specific.
73 Warren
Re: GOOD RX's
Posted by Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ on June 23, 2006 at 23:03:57.
In reply to GOOD RX's posted by David on June 18, 2006
David,
I saw your posting on the LWCA board asking for receiver advice. Not sure what you are looking to do but I'll stick my neck out a bit here.
1) The Icom R-75 - very popular w/ the longwave crowd. Sensitive and stable, good optional filters available. Downside is that it may overload if you are near a stong AM broadcast station. This can be mitigated by use of a low pass filter or a tuned antenna (such as a loop).
2) Some transceivers, the Kenwood 440 and 850 come to mind. The Kenwood 850s higher priced cousin the 950 is NOT AS Good on LF unless it is modified.
3) The Drake R-7 if all you want is NDB or LW broadcast listening, not stable enough for QRSS operation, also freq readout is too course for QRSS.
4) Many of the high end premium receivers such as the Racal 6830, the Harris RF-590, Watkins Johnson HF-1000 or 8711 etc. Best way to go if you can afford it.
Let me know your application and I'll see if I can come up with some more ideas.
potrzebie